Israel and Pakistan holding discussions: Maariv

[SyedA]

Israel and Pakistan holding discussions: Maariv - TEL AVIV, Jan 20: Israel and Pakistan have been holding secret discussions for several weeks to re-establish relations between the two countries, reported Maariv newspaper today. The first ties would be regarding economic interests. Israeli Minister of Agriculture Israel Katz confirmed reports that he plans to visit Pakistan in March, the first official visit by an Israeli minister to Pakistan. Katz told Maariv that it is one of "many contacts which are developing". Pakistani authorities have been informed about his visit as part of a U.N. delegation. (DPA) (Posted @ 13:55 PST)


There has to be some truth to it

[SyedA]

Government denies inviting Israeli agriculture minister: ISLAMABAD, Jan 20: Government today denied inviting Israeli Agriculture Minister Israel Katz to visit in March, contradicting Katz's earlier comments to Israeli radio. "The government of Pakistan has not invited the Israeli agriculture minister," foreign ministry spokesman Masood Khan told AFP. Katz told Israeli military radio that he had been "officially invited to go to Pakistan" as part of a United Nations agricultural delegation, and that he had accepted. (AFP) (Posted @ 13:55 PST)

[Gaf]

Israel and Pakistan holding discussions: Maariv - TEL AVIV, Jan 20: Israel and Pakistan have been holding secret discussions for several weeks to re-establish relations between the two countries,

There has to be some truth to it

Since when was there even relations "originally" setup between the two, that are being "re-established" ??

[Sultan]

I expect they are referring to the covert relations we had with them during the Cold War.

[nasim]

I remember discussion on PAKDEF many years ago where there were claims that components on the F-7 were from israel? Is that true and would that be what constitutes the cold war covert relations?

[Sultan]

Not too sure about the F7 case but if I can recollect correctly the type of relations enjoyed by Israel and Pakistan at the time was either out of convenience, in pursuit of national interests, or as a result of indirect measures taken by one party that benefited the other party.


1. The supply of Soviet equipment captured by the Israelis, during the Arab Israeli wars, to the Afghan Mujahideen via ISI.

2. General Zia Ul Haqs role in the suppression of subversive Palestinian activities in Jordan (infamously known as Black September... I think).

[H Khan]

DAVOS, Switzerland, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf shook hands and conversed warmly with former Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres in Davos on Thursday even though their countries have no diplomatic relations.

The two men met apparently by chance in public outside a VIP lounge at the annual World Economic Forum, where some 2,000 of the world's political and business leaders rub shoulders, sometimes breaking diplomatic taboos.

Pakistani officials looked on nervously as Musharraf smiled, had a prolonged handshake and spoke for about two minutes with Peres, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize for a 1993 Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement that has since fallen apart.

"We all look to your leadership," the veteran Israeli politician, now leader of the opposition Labour party, told the Pakistani leader. Musharraf seized power in a 1999 coup and has engaged his country in the U.S.-led war against terrorism.

Suspected Islamic militants made two attempts to assassinate Musharraf last month.

Israel has been concerned that Pakistan, which has a nuclear bomb, may have shared nuclear weapons technology with some of its most implacable enemies, including Iran and Libya.



01/22/04 10:48 ET

[Hasib]

Nothing wrong with a hand shake. Lets keep the emotion out and take the next step. If Pakistan and the rest of the Muslim countries can have economic & diplomatic relations with India, then why not have same relations with Israel?

Hasib.

[SyedA]

thank you hasib, my sentiments as well and the Propher Muhammad (PBUH) also did trade with them.

[kamran]

No harm in this at all. Its called diplomacy.

[nasim]

If the palestinians and israelis would just make some headway at setting up some sort of truce and working towards an agreement, pakistan would be in a position to openly discuss diplomatic ties on some level. Now is not the time given the violence going on but it is the perfect time to set the stage for that sort of eventuality. Some sort of mutually agreeable program needs to be setup whereby pakistani aid to the palestinians can be disbursed so that the public in pakistan can accept contact between the two states. People who generally dont pay attention to politics would easily be swayed to join street protests and the like by opposed parties unless the bases for relations can be presented as a chance for pakistan to influence israel over the treatment of palestinians and the opportunity for pakistanis to help provide releif aswell.

The best way to get the ball rolling given any opportunity would be for pakistan and israel to agree on consular services whereby pakistanis could visit israeli controlled areas for religous reasons such as dome of the rock and other masjids. You have to start somewhere and this would probably be the most acceptable opener to the pakistani public.

[Munir]

Pakistan president tells Israeli newspaper he will be glad to visit
23-01-2004, 09:25


During the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Pervez Musharraf, President of Pakistan, held a long conversation with Israeli opposition leader, Shimon Peres, and even shook his hand, Maariv website reported on Friday.

The meeting resulted from a random encounter between the two figures. Musharraf recognized Peres among the hundreds of guests at the hotel’s main lobby, approached him, and warmly shook his hand, the Tel Aviv-based newspaper reported. Peres was the one to initiate the conversation, saying: “Mr. President, there are so many rumors about the relations being formed between our countries”.

Musharraf smiled heartily and confirmed the message. “We are undertaking great efforts for this to happen”, he said, but added: “You hold the responsibility to move forward with the Palestinians”.

At the end of the conversation, Peres invited Musharraf to visit Israel, with the Pakistani president replying: “Inshallah” (God willing) as the two parted warmly. Musharraf then turned to answer Maariv’s question about his intention to accept Peres’ invitation, saying that once ties between the two sides are normalized, he will be glad to visit Israel. (Albawaba.com)

[H Khan]

By JOSEF FEDERMAN
.c The Associated Press

JERUSALEM (AP) - Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom says improving Israel's relations with the Arab and Muslim world is a top priority.

That is proving increasingly difficult.

Israel last week found itself in an embarrassing public spat with Jordan, its closest Arab friend, and has recently muffed apparent overtures from Libya, Syria and Pakistan.

Shalom is heading to Jordan this week on the highest-level Israeli visit in 3 1/2 years, hoping to repair at least some of the damage.

It comes at a particularly tense time. Jordan is leading international opposition to a barrier that Israel is building in the West Bank and will argue against it before the International Court of Justice in the Netherlands. A ruling against Israel, while nonbinding, would deliver a sharp diplomatic blow.

The dialogue needs to be improved, said David Makovsky, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. When it's limited, ``the net effect is that people think the worst about the other's intentions.''

Israel says the barrier is meant only to protect its citizens from Palestinian suicide bombers and other attackers. Jordan fears it will make life so hard for Palestinians that they will flood across the Jordan River and into the kingdom, straining its resources and upsetting a delicate demographic balance.

The disagreement spilled into the open last week when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told lawmakers that Jordan's involvement in the barrier dispute is ``damaging and harmful'' to the relationship.

Jordan's foreign minister, Marwan Muasher, responded that his government will fight against the barrier ``no matter what the threats are.''

Despite their differences, officials in both countries said the relationship is too valuable to lose.

Jordan signed a peace agreement with Israel in 1994, the only Arab country besides Egypt to do so.

Since then, Israel has benefited from stability along the sprawling border with Jordan. For Jordan, the treaty has removed the threat of a powerful military adversary and brought important economic gains.

As part of the agreement, Jordan has established industrial zones that allow textile factories to export duty-free to the United States provided their products have an Israeli component. That has created thousands of jobs, and helped boost annual Jordanian exports to the United States from $25 million to more than $600 million in just six years, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Analysts said Israel's dispute with Jordan reflects a larger problem with Sharon's hard-line leadership style. He is thought to have neglected relations with Arab nations during his three years in office, focusing instead on the conflict with the Palestinians.

Jordan's reaction to the barrier may also stem in part from suspicion of Sharon who, before he became prime minister, advocated a radical solution to the Palestinian problem - overthrow the Jordanian monarchy and make Jordan a Palestinian state. He has since disavowed those views.

``There is a lack of inspiration and resourcefulness,'' said Eytan Bentsur, a former Israeli negotiator with the Arabs. The spat with Jordan, for instance, should have been handled quietly through diplomatic channels, he said.

He hoped Shalom's visit ``will mitigate the ill effect of statements made by the prime minister.''

Shalom faces hard going, not just with Jordan. Lately the foreign minister has complained repeatedly of media leaks about secret contacts with longtime foes of Israel. The effect of those leaks has been to embarrass those governments.

Libya denied reports this month that it held secret meetings with Israelis, and Pakistan denied claims by Israeli Agriculture Minister Israel Katz that he had been invited there with a U.N. delegation.

Last week, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Shalom said he had been in touch recently with a number of Arab VIPs, including the foreign ministers of Tunisia, Oman and Qatar and the crown prince of Qatar.

Shalom has disagreed openly with Sharon at times. When Syria, Israel's most hostile neighbor, offered to restart peace talks, Sharon rebuffed it. Shalom has said Israel should have at least the considered the offer.

This week, tensions rose again after Israel carried out an airstrike in southern Lebanon in response to an attack by the Hezbollah guerrilla group that killed an Israeli soldier along the border. Israel accuses Syria of supporting Hezbollah.



01/26/04 08:21 EST

[TahirN]

Islamic extremists trash Pakistani TV offices after Peres interview

KARACHI (AFP) - Islamic extremists ransacked the offices of a private Pakistani television channel the day after it broadcast an interview with Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres (news - web sites), police said.

A Geo television official said the incident appeared to be a reaction to an interview in which Peres called on Pakistan to establish diplomatic contacts with Tel Aviv.

"We don't yet know the reasons behind the attack, but we suspect it could be a reaction to Mr Peres' interview," Geo TV chief Imran Aslam told AFP on Saturday.

Police said around 40 men armed with sticks, some of them carrying pistols, barged into the building which also houses the mass circulation daily Jang and the English-language newspaper The News.

During the attack, which occured around 2:20 am local time (2120 GMT), the men smashed window panes, broke the furniture and torched newspapers' files, witnesses said.

Police arrived at the scene after the mob had fled and no arrests were made.

"The attackers overpowered private security guards and went to the first floor of the multi-storey building where they broke windowpanes and furniture," said police officer Mushtaq Shah.

"Outside the building they damaged seven cars owned by the newspaper and TV staffers," he said.

In the interview Peres urged Islamabad to establish contact with Tel Aviv.

"There is no shame in peace, we should reach full normalisation," Peres said in the interview.

Pakistan is a strong backer of the Palestinians' right to an independent state and does not recognise the state of Israel.

Islamist parties in overwhelmingly Muslim Pakistan have frequently warned the government against establishing any contacts with the Jewish state.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...a_050129122423

[Yahya]

The attack on GEO is most unfortunate and reflects our misplaced concept of Jehad and solidarity with Ummah. Certainly does nothing good for our image.

[H Khan]

Idiots of nth degree!

[Gul Khan]

Some of these fanatics are more Palistanians then Palistanians.. The Pali are willing to recognize Israel and move forward but these fanatics have championed the cause of every muslim country who don't even know where Pak is on the world map.

[Gul Khan]

Idiots of nth degree!

n=infinite

[TahirN]

I think these vandals need to get things in context... This kind of behaviour is not good for Pakistan and Islam, there was no need for this act to take place!

Musharaf talked about a national debate and that did not last long.

Thankfully, the Pakistani masses are totally against recognition of a Terrorist Fascist Israeli state.

Personally, I don't approve of any relations with Israel, our Eastern neighbour is armed to the teeth with Israeli weapons! Radars, avionics, UAV's and now the strategic Phalcon Airborne Early Warning (AEW) System.

Are we supplying weapons to the Palestinain groups such as Hamas or Islamic Jihad? No, Pakistan limits its actions to diplomatic only.

Israel on one hand is constantly stabbing at our nation and the other hand offers flowers to show the world how nice Israel is! Pathetic!

IMHO, This laid back approach and cowardice is promoting Israeli diplomats to rub further salt into the wound and release carefully planned statements to raise its coverage of its propanda against Muslims. Israel good, Muslims very very bad!

Pakistan must continue to play the international politics, the same time we need to react to every move made toward us.

Here are the immediate steps that IMHO Pakistan needs to take to maintain the balance:

1. Modify the Agosta's to fire nuke tipped missiles
2. Build a submarine base on Saudi Arabia red sea coast
3. Sell strategic weapons systems and training service to Israel's immediate neighbours.

Otherwise i see more actions by patronised extremists increasing because of our weak stance against Israeli agression and games!

[SSAAD]

"Sell strategic weapons systems and training service to Israel's immediate neighbours."

And then get put on the list of the countries to be taken out by US and her allies next-in-line after Iran or possibly even before Iran???...IMHO, it does not make much sense to me.

"Build a submarine base on Saudi Arabia red sea coast"

Why? We have no extra-regional aspirations....we should be vocal about the Palestinians rights but not take up a fight with every or anyone.....Russians have been selling more offensive weaponry to India for the past 40 years, do you see us sending our assets into the baltic sea? After all you have to weigh the pros and cons of the Indo-Israeli relations with regards to your interests and the Palestinian interests...if it makes sense to pursue the latter's rights then we should not complain about Indo-Israeli relations much. This situation is a no-win one for Pakistan. The Israeli-Palestinian problem just like the Kashmir problem will NEVER get resolved...its simply not possible with the prevailing conditions in either of these two regions..

[sargam]

The attack was not related to Perez's interview. It was against a program called Uljhan Ki Suljhan where they read out letters from people describing their psych. and sexual problems.

[taimur khaliq]

sex is not much taboo, d topic we have wall full ads of deffirent SANYASI BAWAS and these people give adds in news paper s too I think our religious groups have gone insensitive about the question answer about sex but any how nation has started reacting to something it is a healthy signe

[taimur khaliq]

"Sell strategic weapons systems and training service to Israel's immediate neighbours."

And then get put on the list of the countries to be taken out by US and her allies next-in-line after Iran or possibly even before Iran???...IMHO, it does not make much sense to me.

"Build a submarine base on Saudi Arabia red sea coast"

Why? We have no extra-regional aspirations....we should be vocal about the Palestinians rights but not take up a fight with every or anyone.....Russians have been selling more offensive weaponry to India for the past 40 years, do you see us sending our assets into the baltic sea? After all you have to weigh the pros and cons of the Indo-Israeli relations with regards to your interests and the Palestinian interests...if it makes sense to pursue the latter's rights then we should not complain about Indo-Israeli relations much. This situation is a no-win one for Pakistan. The Israeli-Palestinian problem just like the Kashmir problem will NEVER get resolved...its simply not possible with the prevailing conditions in either of these two regions..

OUR action can prompt America yes but American policy is preemption not reaction there fore what ever has to happen is bound to happen. We are in need to play positive role in the region that is from Suez Canal to Bay of Bengal. If these Arabs were smart enough and our rulers were not puppets of USA we could have built a matured up defense relations with Arabs so that they could protect themselves from any threat but now with US security advisers every where in ARAB world I don’t think so we stand much chance but Tahir has a point and there is no harm trying it because it is Israel who has started this and about Russia selling arms to India do you really think we did nothing to them?

[TahirN]

"Sell strategic weapons systems and training service to Israel's immediate neighbours."

And then get put on the list of the countries to be taken out by US and her allies next-in-line after Iran or possibly even before Iran???...IMHO, it does not make much sense to me.

"Build a submarine base on Saudi Arabia red sea coast"

Why? We have no extra-regional aspirations....we should be vocal about the Palestinians rights but not take up a fight with every or anyone.....

Yes agreed, but like I said Israel has made a number of strategic moves against Pakistan and we have not retaliated... Israel can strike our nation nuke assests via Air and Sea.

If Israel decides to attack us, can we protect our beloved Pakistan?

In regards to your example of Russia, well i agree with your comments but Israel is a greater threat to Pakistan than Russia ever could be.

As long as we cannot retaliate against Israel, we will always be on their hit list. I am dismayed that President Musharraf who talks about a 'Pakistan First' policy is not living upto his promises in this regard.

'Pakistan First' policy must encompass minimising threats from India and Israel.

Israeli moves must be countered with courage... Ignoring them as a threat is a grave injustice against our nation.

[faraz]

Shalom meeting a small step toward Pakistan ties

Israel doesn't see Pakistan as an enemy, but rather as an important country in the Muslim world with which it is interested in normalizing ties, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Sunday.

Regev's comments came a day after Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom met with Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos.

While Israeli officials confirmed the meeting took place, they did not reveal its content.

"We are interested in normalizing relations with Pakistan on the basis of equality and mutual respect," Regev said. "The ball is in their court; we are ready to move."

The Shalom-Aziz meeting followed by a day the publication of an interview in Jang, a leading Pakistani paper, with Vice Prime Minister Shimon Peres, during which Peres said Israel and Pakistan should have "direct, personal contact, publicly, without being ashamed about it."

The paper's on-line edition said that "Peres's comments on Pakistan-Israel relations come as the latest sound byte in an ongoing debate about whether mainly Muslim Pakistan should consider recognizing Israel if the fledgling Middle East peace plan remained on track."

Peres shook hands and exchanged words with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf at last year's Davos meeting, but the Shalom-Aziz meeting went beyond just a passing conversation in a hotel corridor.

The response to the Peres interview in Jang was not long in coming. Reuters reported that on Saturday unidentified armed men ransacked the newspaper's offices in Karachi, apparently in protest of the interview.

According to the report, at least 25 armed men stormed the offices of the daily Jang and the Geo television station, beating security guards and employees, and damaging furniture.

Geo is part of the same media group as Jang, and aired an interview with Peres in 2003.

Police said the attackers also fired dozens of shots in the air and damaged parked cars but no one was hurt. "They were chanting Allahu Akbar [God is the Greatest]," said Azhar Abbas, director of news at Geo, adding, "It could be a reaction to an interview with Shimon Peres."

"We cannot blame any political or religious group as we don't know who the attackers were," said police officer Haseeb Beig. No group had yet claimed responsibility, he added.

In the Jang interview, Peres said "there is no shame in peace; we should reach full normalization."

Asked whether Israel would accept a Pakistani role in the peace process, Peres said, "First and prior to anything, Pakistan has to decide to have contacts with both sides – and that's before playing a part in the Middle East peace process; it cannot play a role without having relationships with all the entities involved."

He added that since Israel has been able to develop close contacts with Turkey, which is also a Muslim state, there is no reason why the same could not be the case with Pakistan.

Last month, another Pakistani paper, the Daily Khabrain, published an interview with Amira Oren, director of the Foreign Ministry's Arabic press and information department.

Oren was quoted as saying Israel "would warmly welcome any gesture of good will from Pakistan to normalize the relationship."

There has been much speculation in Jerusalem over the last two years as to Pakistani motives following an increase in overtures from Islamabad.

In June 2004, after receiving a $3 billion economic package from Washington, Musharraf said in a televised interview that Islamabad should consider recognizing Israel.

Islamic extremists in Pakistan, however, harshly criticized the idea.

At the time, Musharraf's comment was interpreted in Jerusalem as an attempt to gain good will in Washington. Jerusalem also sees Pakistani overtures as motivated in part by a desire to counter Israel's close ties with India, Pakistan's rival.

Regev said that any normalization of ties with Pakistan would "in no way interfere with or come at the expense of our good relationships with other countries on the sub-continent."