Afghanistan Claims Quetta And Peshawar

[Fred]

http://www.dawn.com/2003/08/29/top6.htm

America feels entangled in Durand Line dispute


By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Aug 28: The United States finds itself embroiled in a 100-year-old dispute between Afghanistan and Pakistan but does not have the expertise or the desire to resolve it, officials told Dawn on Thursday.

The dispute resolves around the so-called Durand Line, named after a British colonial official, that marks the present day border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The present day Afghan government says that the agreement reached between their King Abdur Rahman Khan and British colonial official Sir Henry Mortimer Durand in 1893 was for 100 years only and has expired in 1993.

The Afghans are now asking the United States to renegotiate the border and some Afghan officials have already issued a new map that shows such major Pakistani cities as Peshawar and Quetta in Afghanistan.

The issue has already caused several skirmishes between Pakistan and Afghanistan and has forced the United States to form a tripartite commission to resolve border disputes between its two allies.

The commission, which also includes the United States, has already held three meetings and officials in Washington say that they expect the Durand Line issue also to dominate the fourth meeting, scheduled in the second week of September in Rawalpindi.

Officials in Washington say that in the previous meetings the US administration had made it clear to both sides that it has no desire to get involved in re-negotiating a deal made more than a 100 years ago between Afghanistan and Britain.

"The best we can do is to help the two countries re-position small border posts here and there but we are not there to re-write the history," said a senior US official while talking to Dawn.

In its last meeting the tripartite commission had asked its sub-committee to continue with deliberations on proposals to sort out disputes over some border posts. The commission also established a hotline between Pakistan and Afghanistan to prevent further armed clashes between the two countries. The hotline also allows the two US allies to stay in touch with US military officials based in the region.

But diplomatic sources in Washington say that Afghanistan wants more. The sources say that Kabul has officially asked the United States to use its influence on Pakistan to force it to re-demarcate the Durand Line.

Islamabad, however, has already rejected this demand saying that the Durand Line is a settled issue and it has no desire to re-open it.

Informally, Pakistani officials are believed to have complained to the United States that they believe India is using its influence on the Northern Alliance, which dominates the present government in Kabul and has close ties to New Delhi, to revive an old and settled issue.

[Gul Khan]

Afghan officials must be high on afghan stuff especially after the return of drug pushers.

[Shah Khan]

dont worry...next on their map would be Dehli and Agra (Akund {greater} Afghanistan)

[Noman]

Speaking of Maps...Here is the map they propose. And are supposedly negotiating for.

Yeah Right!!! They must think we are really really dense if we are even going to negotiate over this!

The Durand Line is here to stay!!! And Besides, they are claiming Gwadar and the Mekran coast. That area was actually brought (and paid for) by Pakistan from Oman, so Afghanistan has absolutely no claim over it. I am not sure but I think Bhutto ??? was responsible for its acquisition, a brilliant move.

Maybe we should lay a counter claim for the Wakhan Corridor. We don't need a logical approach, just lay claim to it. And THEN negotiate

[Noman]

<Duplicate post deleted>

[iqbal's]

Please not not attribute every devalopment effort to the corruption queen or her father.Gawadar was handed over to Pakistan on payment to the Sultan of Oman in 1958 during Ayub Khan's time.It may interest readers to know that the Mussadam penensula, at the entrance to the Gulf was also offered to Pakistan but our Finance minister at the time shot the idea down on the grounds of the expense of holding on to it by establishing some military posts there.So much for our burecrats foresight.

[Awaisi]

Sallam,

The Afghan Pushtoons are so alienated by the present government that, they could very well start thinking on breaking themself away from present Afghanistan. Situation in Afghanistan is not going to improve and return to peace in this improvished country will remain a far cry. Pakistan has to improve it economical growth and play our cards well and this could become a reality in next decade or so.

[Aéjaz Awan]

Why don't they take over what is left of Pakistan? Are they too scared that they will be out numbered if they do that!

Anyway you have all got it wrong.... Herat and mazar-e-sharif belong to northern alliance and Uzbekistan. Kabul and kandhahar are part of new greater Pakistan. NWFP and Balochistan are incomplete without these areas.

[Aéjaz Awan]

Sorry apart from Awaisi !

[H Khan]

The problem with these rapist-thugs-killers of NA is that they are clearly being used as a condom by the racist Bharatis. When these Bharati say jump the NA ask how high!

[Ali Mian]

AoA,

I guess the Afghanis have been smoking up again. These NA thugs need to be taught a lesson. They are over confident given the American presence in Afghanistan. They should not forget that had it not been for the US bombing and more importantly, Pakistan pulling its support from the Taleban they still would have been living in caves in N.Afghanistan and probably would have lost the 10% of the country they controlled by now.

I hope the ISI is putting in place a new Afghan policy that will keep these idiots in check. I have said this before, if we cannot mainatain a pro-Pakistan government in Afghanistan we need to carve that country up.

wasalaam
Ali

[Shah Khan]

The Pakhtunistan bogey
Aslam Effendi

A former Pakistani army chief Gen Aslam Beg recently expressed his fear about the revival of the Pakhtun demand for Pakhtunistan. Reference to Pakhtunistan and the Durand Line always crops up whenever there is tension between Afghanistan and Pakistan as happened recently. A result of a lot of misunderstanding and bungling by the bureaucracy over these issues, the NWFP is the only place on earth that has no name.

Not very long ago the Pakhtun areas that are a part of Pakistan today were a part of Afghanistan and all the Pakhtuns considered themselves as Pakhtuns first and everything else afterwards. My forefather King Sher Ali Khan and the British Indian government clashed over this very issue, for King Sher Ali claimed the territories of Bajaur, Chitral, Dir, Swat, etc as parts of Afghanistan. Lord Mayo, the British Viceroy, had verbally told Sher Ali that these territories would be returned to Afghanistan if and when the British quit India, but Mayo’s successor, the arrogant British Viceroy Lord Lytton, said that he would not recognise what was agreed between Sher Ali and Lord Mayo. As a result, the Second Afghan War took place. Even before this, the British had deprived the Afghans of Peshawar and this was during the reign of my great grandfather King Dost Muhammad Khan, who used to say that Afghanistan is incomplete without its gateway, Peshawar.

Way back in 1945 I met Marshal Shah Mahmud Khan, the uncle of King Zahir Shah and Prime Minister of Afghanistan, at the Taj Mahal Hotel in Bombay, now called Mumbai. He was on his way to spend a week with my father Prince Abdur Rahman Effendi in Srinagar, Kashmir. Marshal Shah Mahmud Khan told me that on his way to Kashmir, he would be discussing with British Viceroy about the future of those Afghan territories that British India had usurped. The important point to note here is that secret negotiations between the then Afghan and British authorities had been going on over these disputed territories as far back as 1945 and maybe even earlier.

And when the creation of Pakistan was most dramatically and unexpectedly announced, the Afghan government was shocked, felt betrayed by the British, and to express resentment, cast a vote against Pakistan in the United Nations. This vote would have been cast even against India, had it inherited the disputed Pakhtun areas. The British had played the same mischief in the case of Afghanistan as they did in the case of Kashmir. Instead of including Afghanistan in the referendum which was to decide the future of the disputed Pakhtun areas, Afghanistan was not included and thus was laid the foundation of suspicion in the relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And this explains why Pakistan always suspected Zahir Shah of being anti-Pakistan, not knowing that when the UN vote was cast against Pakistan in the United Nations, Zahir Shah’s powerful uncle, Marshal Shah Mahmud Khan, was the Prime Minister of Afghanistan. After Marshal Shah Mahmud Khan’s death, Zahir Shah reversed Afghanistan’s anti-Pakistan policy over territorial disputes. For example, during the 1965 Pak-India War, the Soviets requested Zahir Shah to allow Afghanistan’s air space to be used against Pakistan, a request which was turned down, leading to unfriendly relations between Zahir Shah and the Soviet leaders. Zahir Shah’s removal of his extremist Pakhtun cousin, Daud Khan as Prime Minister of Afghanistan, because of his anti-Pakistan policy, led to a joint Soviet-Daud alliance that brought about the downfall of Zahir Shah. And yet another example of Zahir Shah’s desire of good relations between him and Pakistan was his refusal to protest against President Ayub Khan who referred to him as "His Highness" instead of "His Majesty" in his book, Friends Not Masters. Instead, Zahir Shah’s special envoy came to Swat and I arranged a secret meeting between the envoy and late Begum Naseem Aurangzeb, who was to convey to her father the error in the book so that the issue could be hushed up without involving the Afghan Foreign Office. No wonder, a former Indian Ambassador to Afghanistan JN Dixit in his recent book has said that Zahir Shah was closer to Pakistan than India.

But despite all these facts, ignorance about the background of the Durand Line and Pakhtunistan persists. The British, with the cooperation of their foreign Secretary Sir Mortimer Durand, created the Durand Line — this artificial frontier is so named after him. The British had three aims by creating the Durand Line: first, to mark the boundaries of the Afghan Kingdom, using Afghanistan as a buffer between their Indian colony and Czarist Russia. Secondly, to weaken the volatile and unruly Pakhtuns on both sides of the Durand Line. And thirdly, to force Afghanistan to give up its territorial claim over Chaman, Chagai, Khyber, Waziristan, Bajaur, Buner, Chitral, Chilas, Dir, Swat, Peshawar, etc. The Durand Line agreement was signed between the then Muhammadzai dynasty King, Abdur Rehman Khan, and British India in the year 1893. King Abdur Rehman had no way to refuse, for his refusal would have meant British Indian embargo on arms and ammunition supplies to Afghanistan.

Today, according to international law, the Geneva Convention and the Charter of the UN, the Durand Line treaty is void because it was signed by an Afghan King under duress. However, whether one accepts the Durand Line or not, the Pakhtuns and gypsies have been crossing and re-crossing the long, porous and mountainous frontier between Afghanistan and Pakistan, year after year, and century after century, without any visas and passports and it is impossible to seal such a border. No wonder, the famous Pakhtun leader Badshah Khan expressed his desire to be buried inside Afghanistan rather than his hometown in Pakistan just to prove that the Durand Line is only an artificial wall like the Wall of Berlin and that Afghanistan is the mother of all the Pakhtun tribes. Moreover, despite creating the Durand Line, the British did not enjoy a single peaceful night in the tribal areas. For example, during 1937-38 the British had to deploy 5,000 troops, supported by air power, to control just one small tribe, the Mahsuds. Now imagine what would have been the fate of the British if all the tribes, all armed to the teeth, had revolted. Relations have been peaceful between the Pakhtun tribes and Pakistan only because of a common religion and not because of Pakistan’s diplomatic skill.

Keeping the foregoing facts in view, General Aslam Beg’s fears can only become real if the wise bureaucrats in Pakistan deal in the same fashion as the wise men in Washington have been dealing with Afghanistan and Iraq. My personal opinion is that the only way to kill the Pakhtunistan bogey is for Pakistan and Afghanistan to trade with each other for mutual benefit and not to interfere with the internal affairs of the Pakhtun tribal society, either directly or on behalf of any other power.

The writer is great grandson of Afghan King Dost Muhammad Khan, founder of the Muhammadzai dynasty

effendipak@yahoo.com

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2003-d...03/oped/o4.htm

[JavedR]

Well, i don't know how much weight is there in this Pakhtonistan movement(all my pukhtoon friends are more petriotic and enthusiatic abt Pakistan than me ), but i think that all the pakhtoons in pakistan are comparetively in a better state than the ones in Afghanistan. If NA are trying to make it an issue, it should be solved with the involvment of pakhtoons. If asked to choose between any country i am sure they should go for Pakistan. Anyway most of Afghanis are living here doing business, I think we should ask NA to go for a referandum. let the ppl choose themselves .....

[Rafaqat]

Originally posted by JavedR
I think we should ask NA to go for a referandum. let the ppl choose themselves .....

And then should we also hold a referendum in rest of Pakistan to ask people if we want to join india ?

That was an irresponsible statement. No one has the right (Northen alliance of all people !!) to interfere in Pakistan's internal matters, and certainly no one has the right to try to alter our national boudaries.

Afghanistan needs to waken to the reality that Durand line is the international boundary, and that india's dirty games will not serve any good purposes for afghans.

NA's choice of friends is mind boggling. India of all countries !!
Above all ranting, NA and practically every one in Afghanistan knows that afghans are and alway will depend on Pakistan. Sooner they stop playing games with Pakistan, sooner we can help them achieve a humane existence.

We DO NOT desire an enemy on our western border.

Rafaqat

[ahmed]

they are crying and barking because taliban are shaping up and kicking their butts all across the country..so they gotta go cry to someone... out of the players in the area :america, taliban and pakistan, pakistan seems the only one weak enough to cry at....but its a new for even them...haha...

[JavedR]

Dear Mr. Rafaqat
I prefer if you read the whole statement in its context before announcing your verdict. For your kind reference i am quoting it again

{ If NA are trying to make it an issue, it should be solved with the involvement of pakhtoons. If asked to choose between any country I am sure they should go for Pakistan. Anyway most of Afghanis are living here doing business, I think we should ask NA to go for a referendum. Let the ppl choose themselves..... }

It means involvement of people from both countries, NA is not a representative Govt. and they knew it. On the other hand, a lot of afghan refugees choose to live in Pakistan and by fair or unfair means got the identity cards and that legal stuff. The point is that if the people of both countries are given a choice to make a decision, than the end result could be that they would loose most of the southern Afghanistan instead of getting Quetta and Peshawar.
------------------------------------------------------------
Quote : And then should we also hold a referendum in rest of Pakistan to ask people if we want to join india ?
-------------------------------------------------------------
May I ask how Pakistan came into existence, wasn't it the people who decided in 1946 elections by electing Muslim League as the only representative of Muslims in India, I don't think that Pakistan would have ever existed if the election results of 1946 were different.

Just my point of view…

[Rafaqat]

Javed, I know what you are saying, and i wont argue with that, but your quote can be interpreted differently :

{ If NA are trying to make it an issue, it should be solved with the involvement of pakhtoons. If asked to choose between any country I am sure they should go for Pakistan. Anyway most of Afghanis are living here doing business, I think we should ask NA to go for a referendum. Let the ppl choose themselves..... }

I assumed that when you refer to "NA making it an issue", the issue is National boundary, certainly that is the context of this discussion.

You said "If asked to choose between any country I am sure they should go for Pakistan"

Here .... it could mean 2 things and they are as follows (not in any order) :

1) you mean that Afghan pakhtoons decide to settle in pakistan or afghanistan.

2) people of NWFP vote to choose between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

It occurs to me now, that you perhaps you were referring to No.1 ?? If so, that would indeed be correct, but irrelevant to the topic.
Though it would be an interesting debate, we are not discussing whether afghans rather live in pakistan or afghanistan, we are discussing the rediculous claims of NA regarding the physical boundaries of Pakistan. Hence Perhaps wrongly, but i thought you were referring to No.2.

May I ask how Pakistan came into existence, wasn't it the people who decided in 1946 elections by electing Muslim League as the only representative of Muslims in India, I don't think that Pakistan would have ever existed if the election results of 1946 were different.

My point was that you cant advocate the same for NWFP.


No offence is intended.

Rafaqat

[sfahad]

They are bunch of ungrateful people; we sacrificed our jobs, money for the country that never recognized Pakistan in the UN. I consider this closing paragraph NA's/Indian day dreaming

http://www.afghanland.com/history/durrand.html

Why the Durand Line is important
W. P. S. Sidhu
Tuesday, November 16, 1999

Copyright © 1999 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.

In 1948 Pakistan began the arrest, imprisonment and execution of prominent NWFP Pashtun leaders who did not want to be ruled by Pakistan. Also Pakistan does not have any educational, social and economic plans for the NWFP. Children of Pashtun are thought urdu in schools and businesses are forced to deal with Karachi so that Pashuns of the NWFP never reach powerful status.

Its Time to Raise National Flag of Afghans in Peshawar and Queta

[sfahad]

Afghanistan is not yet a country, it presently remains a cruel apology of a nation propped up by the west. Afghanistan is also another example of our convoluted “Pakistan Last” foreign policy. Afghans are conceivably the most ungrateful people in the world. Simply put, we do not need Afghanistan or Karzai, they and he needs us, in whatever order. It is high time we really put Pakistan’s interest above all, a real “Pakistan First” policy as the President has committed.....

by Ikram Sehgal

here is the complete article:
Afghanistan's First Policy

[iqbal's]

Effandi Sahab
Who live off the "Kabul Pensions" in British India and off whom? In any case Pewshwar was taken from the British from Ranjit Singh not the Afghans.So if any one wants it back it should be the Punjab Govt!!!.Potted history leads to funny conclusiond does it not? The important thing is to look forward and not back. Or soon the Italians would want half of europe back.Ikran Sehgal is write.The Pustoons are an ungrateful lot. More of them live and earn outside the tribal areas than live in it without any check or control.But that is their right! What about their responsibilities?

[Ahmed M]

Very Very Interesting Article. Truly revealing.

Http://www.jang.co.pk/jang/sep2003-d...orial/col2.htm

[Tariq]

I'm sorry I just could not stop laughing after reading this post. I am just wondering how many people in Peshawar and Quetta and rest of NWFP and Baluchistan would like to get an Afghani passport and become part of the great Afghanistan. Afterall, becoming an Afghani citizen is bound to provide them with security, economic benefits, and oh religious freedom. Afghanistan is afterall such a model of economic progress, ethnic tolerance, and religious freedom that the residents of Peshawar and Quetta would be pouring over the border to become Afghani citizen.

I say why even bother to post such stupid claims on this forum. These Afghans are definitely smoking the stuff they sell to the rest of the world. A claim that Kandahar will become a part of Pakistan is more believeable than Quetta becoming a part of Afghanistan. Quetta and Peshawar have become an integral part of the Pakistani economy and the residents of these cities know how important it is for them and their children to be a part of Pakistani future rather than an Afghani on-going nightmare. People in Peshawar and Quetta realize the economic importance of Pakistan when they drive their trucks full of essential good unhindered from Port Qasim to Peshawar and Karachi to Quetta and pretty soon inshaAllah from Karachi to Gwadar.

My advise to Afghanis is that they should instead concentrate on getting Pakistani citizenship to ensure a better future for their kids instead of dreaming of making Afghan citizens out of very happy Pakistanis.

Tariq.

[H Khan]

Tariq Saeed

Peshawar—The Afghanistan government has declined the deployment of Pakistani security forces outside the Pakistan Embassy in Kabul saying not only the provision of security to Pak diplomatic mission was her job but it was also a matter of her reputation, sources told Pakistan Observer.

The Pakistani government had decided to deploy her own security personnel in and around her diplomatic mission in Kabul especially in the wake of ransacking of the Pak embassy in Kabul by the unruly mob in the presence of Afghan security forces some time back.

The government, according to sources, had decided to hand over the job to the NWFP police commandos and final selection in that regard was also made. The commandos were to assume their responsibilities from 15th of December.

However, the Afghan defence ministry has now refused to allow deployment of Pak forces outside the Pakistan embassy under the contention that it was the security matter and the Afghan government herself had to deal with that. “Moreover it may also earn bad name to Afghan government”, the defence ministry officials said.

[Shoaib]

“Moreover it may also earn bad name to Afghan government”.

Obviously failing in the task of protecting the pakistani embassy doesnt

[Fred]

It seems very strange that these afghans don't realise that the number of Pukhtoons on the Pakistan side of the durand line far outnumber the number of Pukhtoons on the afghan side. The Pukhtoons of Pakistan are PROUD Pakistanis and will always remain so.

Why don't they call for a referendum to include all Pukhtoons?

In that case, it is certain that the outcome will be for Pakistan!!

We should not try to sancitify the durand line but rather adopt the above approach.

These afghans will wake up one morning only to find that the durand line has moved further westward to include Kandahar and Kabul within Pakistan!!