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Thread: US Surprised By Iraqi Use of "Kornet" Anti-Tank Missiles

  1. #1
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    US Surprised By Iraqi Use of "Kornet" Anti-Tank Missiles

    (Source; Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty; issued March 27, 2003)



    NAJAF, Central Iraq --- U.S. military intelligence is warning American troops that Iraqi soldiers have begun to use a wire-guided missile system against American tanks that the U.S. military previously did not know they possessed.

    It is called the AT-14 Kornet surface-to-surface missile. It has a range of 3.5 kilometers, and it is emerging as the Iraqis' most effective direct-fire weapon against U.S. armor in the desert of southern Iraq.

    Iraqi commandos traveling in three-man teams dressed in black civilian robes and riding in Nissan pickup trucks have been moving against the flanks of columns of armor from the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division and launching broadside attacks from several kilometers away using the system. Those attacks have already disabled at least two Abrahms tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier.

    U.S. military intelligence officials are extremely interested in capturing one of the missiles intact. They also are instructing American soldiers who destroy one of the Kornet launchers to save the remains of the system for close inspection.

    The Kornet is a Russian-built missile system developed by the KBP Instrument Design-Making Bureau in Tula. It is primarily designed to destroy tanks, but can also be used against fortifications, entrenched troops, and small-scale targets. It has been used by the Russian Army and has reportedly been sold to the Syrian Army.

    The appearance of the Kornet system in Iraq is of particular interest to U.S. officials because of a recent dispute with Moscow over its alleged weapons sales to Baghdad. The U.S. State Department has accused KBP of supplying Iraq with the Kornet missiles, something KBP and Moscow have vehemently denied.

    In a phone call on 24 March with U.S. President George W. Bush, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the American allegations of Russian sales of missiles, night-vision goggles, and radio-jamming equipment were "groundless."

    The AT-14 Kornet is a wire-guided missile system. In such a system, the missile literally pulls a thin wire along behind it as it moves toward its target. Those who fire the Kornet control it by keeping the sights of their launcher trained on the target. That way, the missile can be guided at moving targets like tanks and armored troop carriers.

    As a direct-fire weapon, the missile travels in a straight line, rather than in an arc, as it would with mortar or howitzer artillery.

    Direct fire is considered more effective than indirect-fire weapons like the mortar artillery because the person who is firing the weapon can see the target himself, rather than relying on forward troops to spot and provide information on where the target is.

    But the need to keep a Kornet launcher's sights locked on the target means that it must remain stationery after it has fired. After a Kornet missile has traveled 3.5 kilometers, the guidance wire has completely uncoiled and breaks. The missile then becomes erratic, no longer able to lock onto the target.

    Another disadvantage of wire-guided missiles is that they cannot be fired over trees, power lines, telephone lines, or water. That's because the wire will snag and break, or will malfunction, disabling the guidance system. That means the Kornet will lose its effectiveness against U.S. tanks once the U.S. forces advance near the canals and power lines around Baghdad.

    But for now, in the open desert, the Kornet's 3.5-kilometer range is helping Iraqi forces to equalize the advantage that U.S. weapons have had in earlier battles in this war because of their superior range. A U.S. Abrahms tank has an effective range of 3 kilometers and can destroy targets as far away as 4 kilometers:

    The range of depleted-uranium ammunition fired from the 25-millimeter chain gun of a Bradley troop carrier is classified information, but I have seen that weapon fired in battle here in Iraq and it rivals that of the Kornet.


    (By RFE/RL correspondent Ron Synovitz, “embedded” with a unit of the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division currently outside Najaf, a city in central Iraq)
    Lieutenant, RNR

  2. #2
    Bradely doesnt fire any ATGM or 125 mm munition, it only has 20 or 40 mm gun.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    Gandhi died by the hands of an assassin; Jinnah died by his devotion to Pakistan. Lord Pethick Lawrence

  3. #3
    wrong thread
    Last edited by Gul Khan; 03-28-2003 at 11:19 PM.

  4. #4
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    bradley and tow

    Originally posted by SyedA
    Bradely doesnt fire any ATGM or 125 mm munition, it only has 20 or 40 mm gun.
    the bradley m2 carries TOW missile launchers on the turret.

    http://www.army-technology.com/proje...ley/index.html

  5. #5

    Post

    BBC guy is also reporting that Kuwaitis & Coalition are rather surprised & worried by the fact that last night's attack on Kuwait may have involved an "anti-ship" missile.

    Apparently the missile hugged/skimmed along the water-suface (approx. 4 meters above the water line). The Patriots are on the otherside (Kuwait-Iraq border) looking up at the sky and unable to deal with missiles of this type.

  6. #6
    The missile [fired at Kuwait] was manufactured in Iraq and launched from southern Iraq, military spokesman Colonel Youssef al-Mullah said.

    http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_765631.html

  7. #7

    Question

    More On The Kornet
    "Our Tankers Are In Deep Shit"

    3/29/03 1:29:40 PM
    Discuss this story in the forum
    LSN Reader

    Letter to LSN -- Bill,
    According to discussion on the Liberty Forum, the Kornet AT-14 is not a wire guided missile; the article got it wrong on that score. Apparently it is a laser guided antitank missile. In other words, no wire, rather the user paints the target with a laser beam and the missile homes in on that. A minor point, but an important one if true. And if true, that means our tankers are in deep shit if the Iraqis have large numbers of these missiles.

    Laser guided weapons have fewer drawbacks than wire guided weapons, as the wires can get caught and disabled by trees, telephone poles, etc., whereas as long as you can see the target, you can paint it with a laser. The only thing that stops a laser is bad weather or other things that disrupt light, but then, if that is the case, the user would also be unable to see the target anyway, due to dust, sand, smoke, fog, etc.

    [A recently discharged armored soldier.]

    http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=4315
    Shoaib

    Life's no life when honour's left
    Man's a man when honour's kept
    Nation's honour and nation's fame -
    On life they have a prior claim
    With thoughts of these I do remain
    Unvexed with cares of loss or gain.

    By Khushal Khan Khattak

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Shoaib
    More On The Kornet
    "Our Tankers Are In Deep Shit"

    3/29/03 1:29:40 PM
    Discuss this story in the forum
    LSN Reader

    Letter to LSN -- Bill,
    According to discussion on the Liberty Forum, the Kornet AT-14 is not a wire guided missile; the article got it wrong on that score. Apparently it is a laser guided antitank missile. In other words, no wire, rather the user paints the target with a laser beam and the missile homes in on that. A minor point, but an important one if true. And if true, that means our tankers are in deep shit if the Iraqis have large numbers of these missiles.

    Laser guided weapons have fewer drawbacks than wire guided weapons, as the wires can get caught and disabled by trees, telephone poles, etc., whereas as long as you can see the target, you can paint it with a laser. The only thing that stops a laser is bad weather or other things that disrupt light, but then, if that is the case, the user would also be unable to see the target anyway, due to dust, sand, smoke, fog, etc.

    [A recently discharged armored soldier.]

    http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=4315
    Does anyone know if Pakistan has any laser targeted ATGMs? I know Bakthar S. is wired guided and as such, would suffer the limitations are specified above..
    Gaf

  9. #9
    Also yesterday I saw an M1A1 on CNN which has turret mounted reactive armor, anyone seen such pictures yet?
    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    Gandhi died by the hands of an assassin; Jinnah died by his devotion to Pakistan. Lord Pethick Lawrence

  10. #10

    Lightbulb Who Sold What to Iraq?

    Who Sold What to Iraq?
    The U.S. aims to hunt down companies that supplied Saddam.
    FORTUNE
    Sunday, March 30, 2003
    By Nelson D. Schwartz


    When the first wave of American soldiers swept out of the desert and headed north toward Baghdad, the Iraqis weren't the only ones who experienced shock and awe. In the thick of battle, U.S. commanders discovered that the Iraqi army was able to jam the global-positioning systems the military uses to pinpoint everything from cruise missile attacks to the location of troops on the ground. "It was a technological preemptive strike," says a senior military source.

    It was also a prime example of how private companies violated the embargo that the U.S. and the United Nations imposed on Iraq more than a decade ago. Russian firms supplied the jammers to Iraq in the past few years--they didn't exist during the first Gulf war--prompting a personal protest from President Bush to Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

    The news about the GPS-blocking devices is just the beginning of what's likely to be a series of revelations detailing how companies--including American ones--helped supply Saddam Hussein's war machine during the past decade. That's because in addition to searching for weapons of mass destruction, U.S. forces are scouring Iraq for evidence of who sold what to Saddam. Military sources have told Fortune that special teams are already on the ground, sifting through files to determine where Iraq got everything from rocket parts to fiber-optic technology.

    Despite both U.S. laws and UN sanctions that prohibited all but a handful of commercial dealings with Baghdad, there have been persistent reports that companies from Russia, France, and China, among others, were breaking the embargo. And when the evidence in Iraq is analyzed, says a top Washington official who deals with trade policy, it's likely that at least a few U.S. companies will face fines or perhaps even criminal prosecution. "The fact that American companies have broken the embargo with Iran suggests that there will be some leads in Iraq," adds the government official, who spoke with Fortune on condition of anonymity. "Those of us in law enforcement certainly contemplate that things will be found in Iraq."

    Probing the byzantine web of deals that kept technology flowing to Iraq is a complex job. It's likely to involve teams from the Treasury, State, and Commerce departments, as well as the Pentagon and the CIA. For now the main task is locating the forbidden goods--and their paper trail. Sources say units made up of both military personnel and representatives of the CIA and other agencies have been trained to operate in volatile areas inside Iraq, taking inventory of contraband items and poring over records.

    Similar task forces operated after the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and NATO's intervention in the Balkans in the mid-1990s, but this time the job is much bigger. Because of Iraq's oil riches, Saddam had a far easier time of evading the embargo than did former dictators like Manuel Noriega and Slobodan Milosevic. Fixing blame can be tough, however. Business transactions with embargoed nations are usually conducted through intermediaries, with China and the United Arab Emirates as common transshipment points.

    To further complicate matters, U.S. companies might innocently sell something to a Chinese buyer, only to learn later that it ended up in Iraq. For example, says Kelly Motz of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, China's giant Huawei Technologies is believed to have supplied Saddam's army with sophisticated communications hardware even as it was doing business with the likes of IBM, Motorola, Hewlett Packard, and Qualcomm. "These companies might have thought they were just selling telecom equipment into an emerging Asian market," says Motz. "However, it's been known since early 2001 that Huawei has had dealings with Iraq. So any deals that might have been done since then are questionable."

    If it turns out that companies intentionally evaded the ban, government officials say they are loaded for bear. "We won't tolerate the breaking of the embargo," says Richard Newcomb, director of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control. "If there's a knowing violation, we would prosecute to the full extent of the law." In 2001, the Commerce Department hit McDonnell Douglas, a unit of Boeing, with a $2.12 million fine for improperly selling machine tools to China. Fines for dealing with Iraq are likely to be larger. And if evidence turns up that a particular firm knowingly sold items like night-vision goggles or gas masks to Iraq, federal agencies might impose what they call the "death penalty"--a total ban on all exports by the guilty firm. Criminal charges for executives are also a distinct possibility.

    It's going to take time to determine just who did business with Iraq. But the military, for one, seems eager to shine a light in some otherwise dark corners. "We will have everything at our disposal," says Maj. Max Blumenfeld, an officer with Army's V Corps in Kuwait. Documenting Iraq's deals, he says, "will justify this operation and show the world what we've been saying all along about Saddam Hussein and his efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction." It could also cause a lot of companies to wish they'd never done business with Baghdad.

    From the Apr. 14, 2003 Issue


    http://www.fortune.com/fortune/inves...438836,00.html

  11. #11
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    AOA

    War Diary covers Uday Hussein army of guerrilla-suicide terrorists who follow al Qaeda former use of pickup trucks for terror in Afghanistan and Palestinian suicide tactics against Israel.

    Their most lethal weapon is the Russian-made Kornet AT-14 wire-guided anti-tank missile that can penetrate up to 1100 mm of steel armor at a range of 3.5km

    It was supplied from Belarus through Syria.
    It is credited with disabling a number of heavy American Abrahm-1 tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier of the US 3d Division fighting in the central region around Nasiriya.
    RASHID
    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

  12. #12
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    Rashid :
    "It is credited with disabling a number of heavy American Abrahm-1 tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier of the US 3d Division fighting in the central region around Nasiriya."

    If you meant that the Heavy Armor version of the M1A1/A2, the type with DU reinforced armor, has been destroyed by the Kornets, it's still not confirmed.

    I think it is unlikely that a M1(HA) was knocked out, as that would mean some top-secret technology was out on the battlefield for 2 days, without being bombed.
    Andy

  13. #13
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    Guys,

    I have a question. I have noticed in many tv reports that the US M1 tanks have taken alot of hits from RPG rockets, but that most of these rockets just bounce off or leave tiny dents and burn marks on the M1s. If the US military and Britsh figures are to be believed, then they have only lost a few tanks in action.

    If I was an Iraqi general, I would have distributed as many anti-tank missiles as possible, especially for the cities and towns held by Iraqi forces and given their (in my opinion correct) basic strategy of defending the big cities and towns, especially behind the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.

    Is it the case that Iraqi forces simply don't have sufficient stocks of anti-tank missile and have to rely on almost suicidal sttacks using RPGs close-up?

    Also, as one Pakistani ex-Brigadier mentioned yesterday on ARY digital, why didn't the Iraqis blow up all the bridges on the main rivers, and also destroy the main dam which would flooded a large amount of land and delayed allied armoured forces by at least weeks.
    "Champions aren´t made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision."
    Muhammed Ali

  14. #14
    Originally posted by MohammedA
    Guys,

    I have a question. I have noticed in many tv reports that the US M1 tanks have taken alot of hits from RPG rockets, but that most of these rockets just bounce off or leave tiny dents and burn marks on the M1s.
    Thats because they only showed you the tanks that survived...

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