Pakistan, U.S. Boost Military Ties

[SyedA]

U.S. Shelves Sanctions on Pakistan
In late October, President Bush signed legislation removing remaining restrictions on U.S. military assistance to Pakistan. The legislation is part of a coordinated effort by the Bush administration to reward countries in Central Asia for helping the U.S. in its war against terrorism.

The legislation waives through September 30, 2002 a restriction in current law that forbids funds for "any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by decree or military coup." After that, President Bush will have the authority to waive this so-called ‘democracy' provision for an additional year if he certifies to Congress that such a waiver would facilitate the transition to democratic rule in Pakistan, and that it is important to "US efforts to respond to, deter or prevent acts of international terrorism." General Pervez Musharraf's overthrow of Pakistan's democratically elected head of state in October 1999 barred Islamabad from receiving U.S. aid. The legislation also reduced Congressional notification deadlines for drawdowns, which are exports of military equipment from U.S. stockpiles, and exports of Excess Defense Articles, to 5 days and 15 days, respectively.

One month earlier, under powers available to the President in cases of national emergency, Bush waived sanctions against both India and Pakistan that were imposed after those nations tested nuclear weapons in 1998. Sanctions previously imposed on Pakistan for developing nuclear weapons were also removed. These Presidential waivers enabled the U.S. Government to export dual-use items and defense articles through the Foreign Military Sales program.

Further, shortly before the end of the 2001 fiscal year, and again at the beginning of the 2002 fiscal year, the President, pursuant to a Special Authority provision in the Foreign Assistance Act, authorized $50 million in aid to Pakistan to offset Islamabad's debt to the U.S. On October 25, Secretary of State Colin Powell testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that Pakistan was most interested in debt relief. "I came back [from Islamabad] with [debt relief] emblazoned across my forehead. Not ‘Send me weapons, send me this, send me that.'" Powell said Musharraf wanted the debt relief for "poverty-reduction programs, social programs, education programs."

Additionally, on November 7, the State Department announced that the United States also provided a $73 million package of helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, vehicles, communications equipment, night vision goggles, and appropriate training to Pakistani law enforcement. Asked about a long-term strategy for aid to Pakistan, a State Department official said he did not know how future funds would be used. He also added that no strings are attached to the aid for Pakistan.

Proponents of waiving sanctions on Pakistan and India argue that these countries' support is critical to the U.S. war on terrorism. During debate of the legislation on October 16, Rep. Henry Hyde (R-IL), the Chairman of the House International Relations Committee, said lifting sanctions on Pakistan "is an appropriate response to the emergency situation confronting our Nation." While not opposed to lifting sanctions on Pakistan, Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA), ranking minority member of the House International Relations Committee, noted that the situation in South Asia is highly volatile. Lantos cautioned that "any military assistance or arms sales in the current environment would only serve to further inflame tensions in the region." He went on to urge the administration "to refrain from actions that will accelerate the arms race on the subcontinent and further destabilize the already fragile situation there."

Samina Ahmed, of Harvard's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, believes that even though Russia and China would be willing to provide a range of weapons to Islamabad at discount prices, Pakistan's preference lies with U.S.-made military hardware. "Pakistan's military is U.S.-equipped, U.S.-trained, and they've never been happy with the weapons they received from China, because they are technologically inferior [to U.S. weapons]," Ahmed noted. "My guess is that the U.S. is willing to offer Pakistan weapons, but they want to go about it slowly, and if Pakistan manages to stay on the right side of the U.S., you will see a resumption of the U.S. supplier relationship," she added.

Signaling apprehension about the exact nature of U.S. assistance to Pakistan, Indian External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh told reporters on October 17 that "It is our hope that economic aid [to Pakistan] is utilized for the right purpose."

[SyedA]

By hassany


quote:
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The agreement, which provides for reciprocal support in various fields
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what does this mean in practical terms ??


Pakistan, U.S. Boost Military Ties

By Munir Ahmad
Associated Press Writer
Saturday, February 9, 2002; 9:58 AM

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP)– Pakistan and United States signed an agreement Saturday to enhance defense cooperation, the government announced here.

The agreement was signed as President Pervez Musharraf was traveling to the United States for a meeting next week with President Bush and other American officials.

Under the agreement, the United States will be able to use Pakistani facilities for joint exercises, training, deployments and other military operations.

The United States would receive food, water, transport facilities, fuel, communications and medical services in support of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

The agreement, which provides for reciprocal support in various fields, marks a major step in enhancing military contacts between the two countries. After Pakistan tested nuclear devices in 1998, the United States imposed a variety of sanctions on Pakistan.

Most have been lifted after Pakistan ended its support of the former Taliban regime in Afghanistan and joined the U.S.-led coalition against terrorism.

The agreement was signed by U.S. Maj. Gen., Dennis Jackson, director of logistics for the U.S. Army, and Real Admiral Irfan Ahmad of the Pakistani Ministry of Defense.

Military cooperation is among the topics Musharraf is expected to discuss in Washington. He took power in a 1999 military coup and remains commanding general of the Pakistani armed forces.

The Pakistanis hope to expand cooperation in such areas as military sales and training.

© 2002 The Associated Press

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By Gulstan

I would hazard a guess if we ever went to war with Canada, the USA would provide fuel bases etc to us
Military coooperation without hardware transfer is a one way street, which benefits only one party in this relationship but more importantly will damage ours with the Chinese.
Am sure PM knows what hes doing but I hope he does not take the yanks at their word

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By uazim


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gulstan
I would hazard a guess if we ever went to war with Canada, the USA would provide fuel bases etc to us
Military coooperation without hardware transfer is a one way street, which benefits only one party in this relationship but more importantly will damage ours with the Chinese.
Am sure PM knows what hes doing but I hope he does not take the yanks at their word
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Remember Pakistan and Canada have claims on Yukon which Canadian currently controls

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By Rauf

What does this agreement means, well it may not mean any arms transfer as far as F-16 jets are concerned. The benifet is enormous in othr sectors. Pak Offivers get to meet US officers, a contact that has been eroding away since early 1990s, the new generation of US offciers had less contact with PA, that will increase, thus a sort of equalibrium against the next door baboons would be created, that the baboons had successfully manage to destroy over time. As Gen Frank, Zainy go away so does the inside contact.

There is a saying in corporate America, you have to get your foot in to climb the ladder. Ask PAF pilots that conducted visits, how there interaction went, the PA officers that exchanged various info and new methods.

You can say no thank you and then wonder way you dont get invited or take the invitation and us it to your advantage.
__________________________________________________ _

By Sultan

Pakistan, US sign pact on mily cooperation
From Rana Qaisar
ISLAMABAD – Pakistan and United States on Saturday signed a reciprocal agreement to enhance military cooperation between the two countries.
“The Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement was signed by Director of Logistics US Army Maj. Gen. Dennis Jackson and Additional Secretary Defence Rear Admiral Irfan Ahmed,” it was officially announced.
The agreement is designed to facilitate reciprocal provision of logistics support and services between the armed forces of the two countries.
“The agreement will facilitate combined exercises, training, deployments, operations and other cooperative efforts,” officials said.
The items permitted under the Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) include food, water, transportation, POL communications and medical services.
The ACSA also provides for use of facilities, training services, repairs and maintenance.
“The signing of the agreement indicates the growing cooperation between Pakistan and USA in the field of defence,” the official announcement said.
The agreement is first of its kind signed by the two countries after Pakistan’s joining the international coalition against terrorism.
After the events of September 11, Pakistan had offered the US unstinted cooperation and the coalition forces to use its facilities for action against Afghanistan.
Besides, Pakistan had also decided to provide logistic support and allow the US to use its airspace.
“The ACSA has been signed to facilitate the provision of infrastructure and heavy machinery from US to Afghanistan,” officials said.
The officials said this infrastructure and heavy machinery will be used in the reconstruction of Afghanistan.
Apart from Pakistan’s some air bases, the US has also been allowed to use a couple of international airports in Pakistan for this purpose.
It was learnt that under this agreement the US might use the training facilities of the Pakistan Armed Forces to train the Afghan army. http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/today/main/top2.htm

[SyedA]

Washington to revive defence ties


By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Feb 14: US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld indicated that Washington would resume long-lasting military-to-military "strategic relationship" with Islamabad based on discussions the Pakistani president had had at the White House.

Speaking at a press conference following Gen Musharraf's visit to Pentagon, Mr Rumsfeld said they had talked of a number of ways for strengthening the military-to-military relationship between the two countries.

He said the defence consultation group was being re- established and Undersecretary Doug Feith would be the US representative in negotiations, and "we look forward to strengthening the military-to-military ties".

Mr Rumsfeld said that as the president (Bush) had indicated, the "United States and Pakistan have, what we consider to be a long-lasting relationship, that is, a strategic relationship. It is mutually beneficial. And we look forward to strengthening it in a variety of different ways."

He said: "We discussed what we in the United States call Operation Enduring Freedom, and certainly Pakistan's support for that effort has been important ... it has been significant, and it is appreciated."

President Musharraf said that Pakistan and United States enjoyed very close military relations which went to the strategic level of cooperation in the past. "And it is my pleasure to revive the same degree of relationship again with the United States."

He elaborated "we have cooperated in the past in all actions. I remember our cooperation in Somalia and other United Nations missions abroad where Pakistani forces and US forces have interacted with each other very closely and very successfully. So, therefore, it is Pakistan's desire to increase the level of cooperation with the United States in all fields of military activity."

The defence consultative group, Gen Musharraf said, would look into the physical side of "what we are, what we need to address. I think the future holds good for our relationship and for the equipment that you are talking about in concrete forms. As time passes things will start happening."

ARMS SALES: Mr Rumsfeld said the defence consultative group would also pursue ways to revive arms sales, adds agencies.

Gen Musharraf said he had discussed a list of Pakistani requirements with Mr Rumsfeld, which would be further looked into by the consultative group.

Regarding tensions between Pakistan and India, Mr Rumsfeld expressed the hope for "a peaceful resolution of what clearly has been a very tense period in recent months".

He said Pakistan and India were each sovereign and important states. The principal interest of the United States was seeing that those two countries were able to talk and manage their affairs in a peaceful way. Each of those countries had relationships with a number of other countries and, indeed, purchased weapons from a number of other countries. "And that is not surprising, since each is a sovereign nation".

Mr Rumsfeld said: "President Bush and President Musharraf had a good discussion today. A good number of members of Pakistan senior officials from the government are here, as well as the ambassador, and were in the meetings. They have been talking to a variety of cabinet departments. In addition, President Musharraf is meeting with people on Capitol Hill. I think it is probably best to leave for the president and his team to discuss particular meetings they have had."

[yasser]

US Agrees to sell arms to Pakistan

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/feb2002-daily/15-02-2002/main/main3.htm

[SyedA]

I think some of the training will come to anti-terrorism units such as Mousa Company of the SSG.

As far as as military sales are concerned, I can think of only two possiblities.

1. He said that in the interview to quiet those who have criticized Pak. Govt. over bending too much and not getting anything in return.

2. Pakistan is trying to get something more than just old F-16s and that is why this whole deal and negotiations will take time.

I think if we can get even Block 25 F-16s in large numbers, say 80 or so then we should wait. Mirage-2000 is a good aircraft but we won't be able to afford more than 40 of those.

We also need attack choppers and once again French option is expensive mean while we can get super cobras or cobras a dime a dozen with upgrades.

PAC kamra also needs engines for our K-8s. Out FT-5 fleet and T-37s are getting old and within 5 years or so we will need new K-8s.

We also need C-130s. If we can get a squadron of second hand C-130s with upgrades, that would be awesome. Keep in mind that US equipment is long lasting tough hardware and second hand or storage kept equipment is more than enough to counter indian military.

I am sure we are looking for some sort of AWACS solution. Either from US or the Brazilian solution is good enough.

These are the few main items Pakistan needs. Predator UAVs would be awesome and that is not something too big of a deal for US to sell.

On the army side I can see mostly training and arillery pieces.

Navy can take a big advantage but that remains to be seen.

[Behjat]

Salaam,

Syed, I think despite forthcoming and potential deals with US, Pakistan should be very cautious in treading henceforth. This newfound fondness between US and Pakistan should not blind Pakistan to the fairly recent past which is littered with inconsistent and fluctuating relations. Let's face it, despite all the rhetoric, the fact is that Pakistan's and US' strategic interests have merged on a few fronts. This commonality must not be misconstrued as a u-turn on all fronts.

The fact remains that in the future, Pak & US may not be so close. Let us improve our standing in the US public, gain economically and diplomatically (as we're aptly doing). The military, however, ought not become dependent on ANY single source for high-tech equipment. Yes, commonality of platforms and training methods may make us inclined for US weapons systems but since ToT is not an option from the US, we must acquire weapons that ideally, include ToT ie from France & China. Aside from say, Anti-missle systems, AEW/AWACS and other extremely high-tech stuff, we must ensure that the enthusiasm initiated in the 90's of self-reliance gains MORE momentum rather than takes a few steps back d/t giddiness.

[AkramIshaqKhan]

It has been said,

Those Who Forget The Mistakes Of The Past,
Are Destined To Repeat Them Again.


JK.

[FarazA]

Did any one read today's Jang? US is going sell India Subs,Fighter Planes and hi tech readar systems. Very disturbing news very.
Any comments?
Salaam

[M Ahmed]

Salam,

The US is going to sell weapon locating radars and this comes from the mouth of none other than the US CJCS Gen Myers who called the Indo-US defence cooperation as unprecedented.This is the writing on the wall for all those who have misplaced optimism and blind hopes from the US.The US is no one's friend and the lessons of history vis-a-vis the US track record with Third World and Muslim countries should open up the eyes of people who expect anything wonderful from Uncle Sam.The Indians will get the ARROW and the PHALCON in good time, and a host of other high tech force mutilpliers from the Russians.We have to redouble our efforts are strengtheing our indigenous R&D and our defence relations with China.

Regards.

[yasser]

Guys
I wish people wpuld really stop whining and coming to baseless conclusions, this place is starting to sound more and more like BR, where one peice of news causes them to make an "analysis" on the whole future of South Asia.
Remember some points.

1)Pakistan has been operating the APTQ-37, WLR for 15 years, it is the same system that is being sold to India

2) India has been BEGGING for this system for 5 years now!

3) All of this has been reported in the Indian press.
If I belived everything the Indian press said we would now be facing Indian forces equipped with the following

TU-22's
Hawk Jets
Russian Carriers
French Scorpene Subs
Arjun Tanks
LCA

Not one of these is in service yet, more to the point not a single PURCHASE of these have been made by the Indian forces.

The momment the dodgy news report crops up we think our Artillery boys on the LOC are going to be facing US made WLR's!!!!

This is NOT the case, hell they have not even got back the engines for the LCA that they paid for!

The momment the deal is signed I will begin to worry, till then I will take this "report" for exactly what it is.......Indian Crap!!!!!!

[SyedA]

yasser is right.

take eveything from indian media with a bag full of salt. jang and other pakistani news medias are just cutting and pasting and making noise for no reason.

US had given the approval for the artillery locating raddar back in 80s but atthe request of DRDO IA backed out since DRDO said they could make one themselves which never happened along with other projects.

Indian military needs to go through a massive upgrade before they buy new toys. Lates wait and see what happens. Times of india is even reporting that India is going to buy C-130Js, orions and so on.

So, chill out

[FarazA]

Originally posted by SyedA
yasser is right.

take eveything from indian media with a bag full of salt. jang and other pakistani news medias are just cutting and pasting and making noise for no reason.

US had given the approval for the artillery locating raddar back in 80s but atthe request of DRDO IA backed out since DRDO said they could make one themselves which never happened along with other projects.

Indian military needs to go through a massive upgrade before they buy new toys. Lates wait and see what happens. Times of india is even reporting that India is going to buy C-130Js, orions and so on.

So, chill out

Well I hope you and Yasser are rigth. But in the end I think they will get more weapons then us. One thing that goes against them is they are getting systems of all kind and from all over the world they will go nuts in maintaining them. But still they will still pose danger to us. If not right now but then later on if they get some US made hardware, it won't be a good thing.

On the other hand I will pray that they will never shut down DRDO and keep giving them assignments of their national security.

[yasser]

Faraz
Thats a good point, and I am sure that will be the case due simply to their bigger economy, but do bear in mind one thing.

When equipment aqquisition is being discussed in India everyone jumps up and down and shouts in there media and government.

Unlike in India equipment aqquisition is done totally by the military in Pakistan. We do not hear much about it.

Remember when we were chatting to the Brazilians about AWACS!? We only heard about it AFTER negoatiations had failed.

Likewise, everyone on this forum only really started to learn about our Agosta 90B, T-80 and Upgraded Mirages AFTER contracts were signed and the kit was on its way to Pakistan.

This will almost definately be the case when we order more equipment. The Pakistan Forces will keep any weapons negotiations secret as if we reveal them , then India will automatically bring pressure to bear on the country negotiating with us, France, Sweden, US....whoever!
It may well be a condition of any negotiation, the selling country may require us to keep the weapons supply secret until AFTER contract signiture.

Personally, I see us taking some F-16's and C-130's from Lockheed soon.....

[SyedA]

Pak-US Defence Consultative Group to meet in April

By Shakil Shaikh

ISLAMABAD: The second time-revived Pakistan-United States Defence Consultative Group (DCG) would meet here in mid-April this year for working out enhanced futuristic strategic cooperation between the two countries.

"Yes, the Pak-US DCG will meet in April, through the final dates for this confluence are still being worked out, for the first time since its revival," a senior official told The News on Thursday.

The DCG was revived during President Gen Pervez Musharraf's US visit, as it was one of the major successes of this visit.

The Pak-US DCG was formed during the days of Russian invasion in Afghanistan and it was key instrument of cooperation between Islamabad and Washington. However, the group's functioning remained dormant since the withdrawal of Red Army troops from Afghanistan.

In 995, the DCG was revived during US Defence Secretary William Perry's visit to Pakistan. However, after holding a few meetings of this group, it was again kept dormant. The major success, however, achieved through this group and the committees formed under it helped Pakistan to recover $658 million, which Pakistan paid for non-delivered F-16 aircraft.

Under the same arrangement, Pakistan got naval maritime surveillance aircraft P-3C Orion, and the released was ensured in case of many parts commercially purchased from the US. So far, the Pak-US DCG has an institutionalised arrangement of intelligence information sharing, which is going on at its peak since 9/11 terrorist attacks on America, drawing periodical military training programmes for defence officials of three services of both the countries, and to resolve irritants in military-to-military relations between Pakistan and the US.

Now, it seems all set to see enhanced defence and strategic cooperation between the two countries, as they have evolved strategic partnership in the post 9/11 period, with Pakistan providing all kind of logistic support, locating some airfields to the US for contingency plans, and cooperation in the area of intelligence sharing.

It is also agreed that representatives of the three services will attend the meetings of this group, and it may include in the future some senior intelligence people from both sides, with secretary defence to head Pakistani side. The US defence team for this group will be led by either undersecretary defence or deputy secretary defence.

Presently, both the sides are engaged in exchanging communications on the holding of first meeting of the group with agenda to be discussed, as Pakistan would certainly set to press ahead with its demand of allowing military hardware purchasing on commercial basis from the US.

Both the countries and other officials will also continue to work and cooperate for their campaign against terrorism, as it will also prove helpful in eliminating terrorism and dealing with fled away elements of Taliban and al-Qaeda people.

[nausherwan]

Practically, US sanctions against Pakistan continue
NADEEM HUSSAIN
ISLAMABAD (February 26 2002) : As far as formalities are concerned, the US has lifted all defence sanctions against Pakistan but, in practical terms, the sanctions still continue.

Sources said that after the announcement of lifting the sanctions Pakistan tried to obtain spare parts or replace or revamp its equipment from the direct and indirect international sources, but the response from them came as a surprise because they not only showed reluctance but also maintained that they had not received any written instructions regarding the lifting of the sanctions.

Sources said as far as the purchase of defence items from US is concerned a list of items has been provided to defence export department of US and only those items can be purchased which are cleared by the department. "Items which fail to pass the scrutiny of the department are not allowed to be purchased," added the sources.

They said that Pakistan is looking to replace its ageing C-130s but is finding it difficult to obtain these aircraft but apparently negotiations are being held with Holland for the purchase of six such aircraft. "But due to the strange sort of situation the deal seems to be taking longer than necessary for such purchases," sources added.

Whenever contact is made with international arms suppliers at their level by Pakistani counterparts, despite the lifting of sanctions, the answer is "right now we can't do any business with you; please wait and see for a while".

Sources said such an attitude has really put the defence ministry officials in a quandary who were hoping to put the things together which were running into snags after the imposition of sanctions. "We can only hope that the situation will be short-lived and US will evolve a clear-cut strategy needed after the lifting of sanctions with Pakistan who stood beside her in the need of hour", sources commented.

[SyedA]

I dont trust these news articles baed on "sources", Either give names who said what or don't publish it.

[H Khan]

Originally posted by nausherwan
Practically, US sanctions against Pakistan continue

They said that Pakistan is looking to replace its ageing C-130s but is finding it difficult to obtain these aircraft but apparently negotiations are being held with Holland for the purchase of six such aircraft. "But due to the strange sort of situation the deal seems to be taking longer than necessary for such purchases," sources added.


I have not heard or read that the Dutch's are trying to sell their c-130s but on the other hand I have heard of considerable activities between Pakistan's Navy and AF and Dutch's conterpart.