U.S. to give Apache attack helicopters to Pakistan

[A Haider]

Sunday November 11, 1:34 PM

U.S. to give Apache attack helicopters to Pakistan
By Muhammad Najeeb, Indo-Asian News Service

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Islamabad, Nov 11 (IANS) The Pakistan Army is all set to receive a batch of six Apache attack helicopters from the U.S. early next month, after nearly a decade-long arms embargo, reports here say.

The six AH-64D Long Bow Apaches will be part of the $73 million American assistance to Pakistan announced last week to strengthen its western borders with Afghanistan.

Although it is not possible to confirm the version of these choppers, it is believed they will be either AH-64 or AH-64D, a report in Al-Akhbar daily said.

The U.S. on November 7 announced it would provide Pakistan with $73 million in emergency funds to safeguard the security of its borders, particularly with Afghanistan.

Assistance will include helicopters and planes, land vehicles, communications gear, night vision goggles and also direly needed training.

The batch of six Apaches comes after President Pervez Musharraf promised the U.S. authorities he would launch a crackdown on cross-border movement along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border but required help in terms of military hardware including helicopters, spare parts for Pakistan's fleet of F-16s and other equipment.

Musharraf and his team during talks with U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had demanded greater military assistance from Washington for security of its borders and vital nuclear installations.

Pakistan's nuclear assets are guarded by air capping done by F-16s but due to non-availability of fast running out spares Pakistan had to cut down flying hours of its F-16s.

Another report in a Pakistani daily said the country would soon receive the first shipment of spares for its depleting fleet of F-16s.

Islamabad believes international concerns about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets can only be put at rest if the country is provided with state-of-the-art ground and air equipment for the security of nuclear installations.

Unrest by religious organisations which oppose Pakistan's decision to support the U.S.-led strikes in Afghanistan have sparked off fears of a threat to the Musharraf regime, and consequently of nuclear installations falling into the wrong hands.

"The batch of six Apache helicopters will give lethal teeth to the Pakistan Army, which has not inducted any top of the line system into its inventory for more than 10 years now," says a defence analyst. It recently inducted Ukrainian tanks and some very insignificant defence systems.

The AH-64 attack helicopter's four wings hard-points can carry 16 Hellfire missiles or 76 rockets (or a mix of these weapons) and the under fuselage turret is designed to collapse harmlessly upwards in crash landing.

It also houses a 30mm chain gun with 12,000 rounds of ammunition. The entire structure is designed to withstand hits of any type of ammunition up to 23mm calibre.

The AH-64 chain gun can disable a tank from 1.5 km and the Hellfire missiles have a range of 6 km. Apache's new version AH-64D can use radar-guided Hellfires, which can be used in a "fire and forget" fashion.

Greece, the U.S. and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) are using Apaches AH-64 at present.


Source http://in.news.yahoo.com/011111/43/18lum.html

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http://in.news.yahoo.com/011111/43/18lum.html

[Waqqas]

What difference can 6 apaches make? Next time US dumps us it will be a logistical nightmare to keep these beasts flying. Why not ask for more cobras?

Unless we suddenly "crash" one of these things and send it for burial in China, of course.....:D:D:D

[Sultan]

Well if theyre free then it really doesnt matter........ although it would have made sense to acquire 6 cobras instead to supplement our existing fleet.

[Amer M]

I don't get it, they're not prepared to give us old Block 15OCU F16s but are willing to hand over one of their most lethal weapons, the Longbow Apache? And how can they hand them over in a month when our pilots are not even trained on the Apache yet! Its not the same as flying a Cobra, the Apache has more advanced weapons systems, radar, helmet mounted sight as well as other additions all of which take months before a pilot can be certified to fly.

Or are we seeing another carrot dangling exercise to keep Pakistan happy?

It would make more sense to supply suplus Cobras.

[Farooq]

Pakistan getting apache's is no big deal for the US why:

1. it provides it with the excuse to reciprocally provide India with ALR's which they they are desperate for, as well as restart tech coop in LCA, missile and other technologies with india.

3. The US has more chance of grounding them in future, since very few countries use them the availability of alternate spare part sources would be a problem.

4. 6 helo's are not going to make a tremendous difference to the overall equation vis-a-vis with India. 20+ maybe..

I am personally sceptical about this news item. More likely the helo's will probably be blackhawks, or some other dual purpose helo, rather than a dedicated attack helo.

[M Ahmed]

Salam,

The United States has never given even an iota of modern,lethal military equipment for reasons other than its own national security which implies insecurity for the weak and the vulnerable.Therefore they will never give Pakistan any high-tech military equipment such as the APACHE gunships,and a handlful few would be useless in the face of the Indian superiority in numbers.Also the US wants to prop up India as a strategic counter weight against China,so it would not want to antagonise the India who has much to gain in terms of military equipment and technology rather than cash strapped Pakistan.We must recognise and accept that we have to stop looking at others for tech,we can and we must do it ourselves.And then there is the ever present danger of Pakistan Army running out of spares in the light of the past experience.
The Apache gunships much like the Cobras as I understand are meant for anti-armour roles,and the Indian Army seems to have given some imprtance to low level airdefences to their Strike and Mechanised Forces against whom these Cobras and Apaches would be used.The 514 Air Defence Regiment of the IA was raised specifically for the state-of-the-art TUNGUSKA airdefence weapon system which is the only gun/missile weapon system of its kind on a single tracked chassis and is of Russian origin.So how effective would afew APACHES and COBRAS in the presence of such enemy formations?

[Saladin]

If Pakistan is getting the Apaches , it should grab it (especially if its free, is it free?).We use it here in Singapore(we purchased 8 from the US).A pretty awesome anti tank platform.In the Gulf war they were responsible for destroying some 500 iraqi tanks plus hundreds of other armoured vehicles.dont know whether there were any comabt losses.It should be able to survive any indian low level defence measures going by its past record in the Gulf and Panama.

But something seems amiss to me.Is the price tag of 73 million correct?Maybe somebody can clarify for me.I remember in Singapore we spent several hundred million for the 8 Apaches and spares and missiles.

[Farooq]

I think there is a tendency to grossly underestimate the capacity of IA. In terms of armour, we may be almost at a par with them, however in other areas such as MLRS, air defence, C3I, they have made massive strides in the last decade eversince sanctions were slapped on Pakistan.

They have assimilated and whole heartedly embraced the Land-Air battle concept. They have modernised their communications and surveillance systems.

Lack of ALR was their main weakness, which they are looking at rectifying with aquisitions from Israel/US.

Unlike Pakistan (due to financial constraints etc) there is now much greater operational integration between Indias Army and AF.

There mobile air defence systems would nullify any supposed aquisition of Apaches by PA.

[A Haider]

The report is BS, i think, after all if we were getting Apaches(!!!!!!!) this would bring a lot of Indian crying, and 7 apaches have more firepower then 30 Cobras.
they can halt a indian attack without any problem.
And USA knows if PA gets Apache so does China:)
so there is no way we are getting even 1 apache!....

[Maisum Ali]

FROM KANWA

INTERVIEW WITH BRIGADIER RASHID QUREISHI

On the issue of purchasing APACHE and other new US-made military appliances:

Rashid: I have heard nothing about it, nor did I ever see any report about APACHE. On the issue of purchasing military equipments, further discussions will be held later. Pakistan will only consider obtaining what we need according to the current state of affairs in the region and also on basis of a cautious assessment of India's military capacity.

[nausherwan]

ok, so this is the last nail in the coffin!!!!!

[Malghani]

It could be that PA is keeping this whole thing hushed up.
Apache is a formidable platform. It is definetly 4 times the attack helo that Cobra is. Hellfire missile itself is generations ahead of TOW. Even if we have 6 of these. That is much better than the 10 Cobras that were supposedly embargoed by US along with F-16s.

By the way I know we had this discussion here before but I don't know how it concluded. Did PA ever get those cobras through Brown Amendment or no.

3 Apaches to a squadron of Cobras is definetly going give us a decent flank coverage. I wonder if these Apaches are mated with AIM-9s. That'll take care of the Hinds in the battle as well.

[nausherwan]

Malghani,

But where will we get these 6 Apaches from?? Certainly not the U.S!!!

[SyedA]

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/gallery/dubai/images/0004.jpg

[Aamir M]

Guys,

Why are you giving so much credence to an old news report by Indian media??? No doubt this was just made up by the hyper-active imagination of an Indian sensation-seeking journalist.

[Malghani]

nausher,

I'm just speculating on the news that started the thread. And offcourse the apaches are going to come from the US. We are not going to pick them off the apache trees behind the CE sectriate.

Aamir,

Wilco! ;)

[H Khan]

The United States is helping Pakistan with the daunting task of policing its 1,500-mile border with Afghanistan. As fears mount that Taliban fighters, and possibly even suspected terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden and members of his Al Qaeda organization, may try and cross the rugged and porous border and seek shelter in Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal areas, U.S. and Pakistan officials say Washington is providing $73 million for new Apache gunships, helicopters, vehicles, surveillance equipment and border-monitor training. The new equipment will be used by Pakistan's military to patrol the border. Pakistani military officers say they are also evaluating radar systems

Source: FEER December 20, 2001

[Maisum Ali]

HKhan can please provide a link.. thanks

[H Khan]

Maisum,

Someone send this news but I'll check with him what does FEER stand for.

FEER might be Far Eastern Economic Review