Communists in Pakistan?!

[Vladimir]

Greetings, glorious people!
Recently I find interesting article about Communists in Pakistan. Pro-communist writer proudly mentioned 'The struggle in Hashtnagar'
and 'region of Patfeeder in Baluchistan' as an examples of their deeds.
Where I can find more precise information, most preferable as a links to online articles or via specialists?

Sincerely yours, Vladimir

[Mohsin]

:D :D Communists in Pakistan. Well I have seriously no idea what you are talking about. You can go check India, it has quite a few Communist parties etc. As far as Pakistan is concerned I doubt people will ever believe in this idea even though they havent been able to use democracy well. We actually were part of a big alliance that kicked Communist Russia out of Afghanistan. Well gud luck in ur researh. lollllllllllll. :D

[Noman Habib]

Greetings, glorious people!
Recently I find interesting article about Communists in Pakistan. Pro-communist writer proudly mentioned 'The struggle in Hashtnagar'
and 'region of Patfeeder in Baluchistan' as an examples of their deeds.
Where I can find more precise information, most preferable as a links to online articles or via specialists?

Sincerely yours, Vladimir
There was one communist party of Pakistan it existed till 80,s.1954 the communists tried to over throw the Government but conspirators were caught on very initial stage.those were renowned communists like
1.Faiz Ahmad faiz
2.general Akbar khan
3.Sibt-i-hassan
and so many others.The seventies were peak period of the communism/socialism in Pakistan and socialist peoples party and awami league won the election in both parts of the country and then the decline started now a days we have comrades but they prefer to make some NGO and get money from capitalistic America/europ and don,t talk of revolution

[Niaz]

There were many left of centre writers such as Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Ahmad Nadeem Qasmi etc. I doubt if they were really communist. I met Faiz Sahib myself when he was in London. He was certainly no communist like the one from Soviet Union, but he was very leftist in ideas and very anti landlords and anti big business. Maulana Bhashani of National Awami Party in East Pakistan was probably as close to communist philosophy as you can get. The conspiracy against Liaqat Ali Khan government was not communist inspired. It was mainly due to Maj. Gen Akbar's and some other young Army officers " Anger" against Liaqat Ali Khan for accepting UN brokered ceasefire which resulted in the Kashmir problem that exists today.

At least I dont remember any official communist party in what is now West Pakistan. Trouble is that ever since independence, any one against the establishment was branded "Communist and Traitor". Just as Islamists today will brand any one who does not agree with them as as Kaffir. The label of communism was a ruse to marginalize the opposition. I remember Mian Iftikharuddin called as "Comrade Iftikhrof" by govt paid writers after Progress Papers of Pakistan was taken over by Ayub Khan.

[Mohsin]

"I think, you slightly misguided.
USSR pul out his troops by his own will - an no one in Afghanistan or elsewhere can claim, that he fastened or facilitated this. Altought I think Afghan war is error of our leaders, USSR can wage war indefinitely if wish so and in any case we clearly cannot be treated as a losers in this conflict. It is no less clearly visible, that Mujaheeds victory over corrupt nominally communist regime is bring Afghanistan to even more troubles than ever before.
Also, Pakistan CP exist and even have a two internet sites, but they e-mail addresses are broken - it is reason why I ask peoples from forum"

Mr Vladimir,

May be I am misguided and there are still Communists at large in Pakistan :D but there should be no doubt that Pakistan certainly fascilitated USSR pullout from Afghanistan. Plus I think it is high time you should admit that USSR lost the Cold War.
Try this link may be you will learn something new.
http://www.fictionbook.ru/author/yousaf_mohammad/the_bear_trap_afghanistan_s_untold_story/yousaf_the_bear_trap_afghanistan_s_untold_story.ht ml

[Noman Habib]

There were many left of centre writers such as Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Ahmad Nadeem Qasmi etc. I doubt if they were really communist. I met Faiz Sahib myself when he was in London. He was certainly no communist like the one from Soviet Union, but he was very leftist in ideas and very anti landlords and anti big business. Maulana Bhashani of National Awami Party in East Pakistan was probably as close to communist philosophy as you can get. The conspiracy against Liaqat Ali Khan government was not communist inspired. It was mainly due to Maj. Gen Akbar's and some other young Army officers " Anger" against Liaqat Ali Khan for accepting UN brokered ceasefire which resulted in the Kashmir problem that exists today.

At least I dont remember any official communist party in what is now West Pakistan. Trouble is that ever since independence, any one against the establishment was branded "Communist and Traitor". Just as Islamists today will brand any one who does not agree with them as as Kaffir. The label of communism was a ruse to marginalize the opposition. I remember Mian Iftikharuddin called as "Comrade Iftikhrof" by govt paid writers after Progress Papers of Pakistan was taken over by Ayub Khan.
Communist pary of Pakistan chairman late CR ASLAM
taraqi pasand mohaz meraj m khan
national awami party wali khan late
The main reason for failure of communist parties was their support of sepration movements in east pakistan,Nwfp sindh and balochistan but the influence of communists can not be denyed once we see anti westeren centiments in our society

[mHussain]

I once had the opportunity to attend a lecture in Islamabad of a gentleman whose name I can't recall at that moment but he was sent to prison for some statement he made. He used to be a very famous educationalist and headmaster of some college in Lahore if I recall. And said something against the establishment on radio during Zia's time. Was a known communist.

I recall he saw the communist ideas still relevant post collapse of the soviet union but the main emphasis shifting to international economics and the great divide between the Rich and the Poor nations (rather than an analogy of rich and poor within specific countries). That this will define the international landscape and it would be natural for the Third World to form a block against the oppression of the First World. He's past 80 by now I recon. If I recall he sometimes used to write on the News. I somehow just can't remember his name.

PS: I recall he also visited the Kremlin and had friends in the Soviet Union. One anecdote he recalls is how a senior Soviet party official lamented that it took 5000 men to create the communist revolution and with millions now the communists were still down, blaming it on the lack of spirit and belief in the communist ideology.

[Noman Habib]

mr.hussein
hope you are not talking about Raza kazim
the second renound communist alive is Mr.hussein naqi

[mHussain]

Mr. Habib, not at all. I'll try to remember or dig up the name if you like.

[Noman Habib]

Sometime i feel we need enthusiasm of Mujahideen with communist economy.
Imagine if taliban were running communist economy won't they give wonderful results?

[mHussain]

:) A true communist economy has never been tried. Stalin took the heart out of any ideal communist state that the intellectuals had in mind. I personally believe that the next great philosophical theory is yet to be written and will incorporate the best parts or "best practices" of the west and the east - from the US constitution to Confusian ideas to Plato's meritocracy to Marx's dialectics and incorporate all of this in a synthesis within an enlightened Islamic state where the Quran and Sunnah is not questioned but their interpretation and the Ijma and Qayas created within Islamic jurisprudence is. I hope I am not labelled a heretic for saying so.

I've personally been very sceptical of communism as evnisioned in the Soviet Union for one factor - that Marx, Trotsky, Lenin and even Stalin were jewish. Stalin has not been proved to be jewish by the wider media but my research indicates he was - his Georgian last name actually translates into "jew son of" before he changed it to stalin. There are many many other proofs but I'm steering off topic. Also the strange "coincidence" in that many of the top officials in the Kremlin were jewish and the 7 of the 9 oligarches who benefited from the Soviet Union's collapse were also jewish. Perhaps I live in a world of paranoid conspiracy theorists or perhaps not but these are rather uneasy questions. And I can give out a lot more such questions and I can't really offer any conclusive alternative either but something doesn't smell right to me.

[glyn]

[QUOTE=mHussain]:) A true communist economy has never been tried. Stalin took the heart out of any ideal communist state that the intellectuals had in mind. I personally believe that the next great philosophical theory is yet to be written and will incorporate the best parts or "best practices" of the west and the east - from the US constitution to Confusian ideas to Plato's meritocracy to Marx's dialectics and incorporate all of this in a synthesis within an enlightened Islamic state where the Quran and Sunnah is not questioned but their interpretation and the Ijma and Qayas created within Islamic jurisprudence is. I hope I am not labelled a heretic for saying so.


It seems that every system that has been tried so far is unfair to at least some of the populace. We must also remember that many systems were very popular at some periods in history, and reviled in others. All systems must be able to accommodate the changes that happen over time without a needlessly massive bureaucracy. I don't know what will appeal to all the peoples of the world. Look at the stresses in Europe caused by beginning to harmonise legislation. I think the older person is more inclined to favour evolution, and the young revolution.
Whilst in no way attempting to belittle your suggestion, I can (as I'm sure you can also) see difficulties that at present appear insurmountable. To begin with there is overpopulation, with all the problems that brings. Then there is environmental damage to the planet on which we all live. Water shortage is an increasing worry. Add religious intolerance to exponentially increase our problems.
I wish you all the luck in the world to come up with a solution.

[Noman Habib]

:) A true communist economy has never been tried. Stalin took the heart out of any ideal communist state that the intellectuals had in mind. I personally believe that the next great philosophical theory is yet to be written and will incorporate the best parts or "best practices" of the west and the east - from the US constitution to Confusian ideas to Plato's meritocracy to Marx's dialectics and incorporate all of this in a synthesis within an enlightened Islamic state where the Quran and Sunnah is not questioned but their interpretation and the Ijma and Qayas created within Islamic jurisprudence is. I hope I am not labelled a heretic for saying so.

I've personally been very sceptical of communism as evnisioned in the Soviet Union for one factor - that Marx, Trotsky, Lenin and even Stalin were jewish. Stalin has not been proved to be jewish by the wider media but my research indicates he was - his Georgian last name actually translates into "jew son of" before he changed it to stalin. There are many many other proofs but I'm steering off topic. Also the strange "coincidence" in that many of the top officials in the Kremlin were jewish and the 7 of the 9 oligarches who benefited from the Soviet Union's collapse were also jewish. Perhaps I live in a world of paranoid conspiracy theorists or perhaps not but these are rather uneasy questions. And I can give out a lot more such questions and I can't really offer any conclusive alternative either but something doesn't smell right to me.
You are right to some extant about the Jewish connection some times one wonders about the Jewish persecution since centuries at the hands of everyone from prehistoric era till today.Is every one is at fault since 5000 years and only these guys are right? :rolleyes:
it is the oligarchy plus the bureaucracy of communist party which led to fall of soviet union however the question of accumulation of capital in few hands in order to incite competition in growth leaving the day to day needs of human unanswered vs stagnated economic pat tron of communism where the rise in annual growth is much slower than capitalism and ultimately communism fails in essence because of lack of economic activity to guarantee the basic needs of all the subjects of state.

[glyn]

[QUOTE=Noman Habib] one wonders about the Jewish persecution since centuries at the hands of everyone from prehistoric era till today.Is every one is at fault since 5000 years and only these guys are right?

It seems that you and virtually all muslims are programmed to hate jews. Why is this?
As has been raised by other correspondents they are few in number and scattered around the globe. They are survivors who have endured centuries of discrimination. They are also successful, hard working, usually cultured and prosperous. It seems that all peoples might well benefit from studying them rather than hating them without really knowing why.

[yasser]

[QUOTE=Noman Habib] one wonders about the Jewish persecution since centuries at the hands of everyone from prehistoric era till today.Is every one is at fault since 5000 years and only these guys are right?

It seems that you and virtually all muslims are programmed to hate jews. Why is this?
As has been raised by other correspondents they are few in number and scattered around the globe. They are survivors who have endured centuries of discrimination. They are also successful, hard working, usually cultured and prosperous. It seems that all peoples might well benefit from studying them rather than hating them without really knowing why.

Ah, accusations of anti-semitism by using a statement such as "all muslims programmed to hate jews"! Can you see how absurd that comes across? Do you think we all do?

All muslims also have horns on our heads and drink the blood of Christians and Jews!

[glyn]

[QUOTE=glyn]

Ah, accusations of anti-semitism by using a statement such as "all muslims programmed to hate jews"! Can you see how absurd that comes across? Do you think we all do?

All muslims also have horns on our heads and drink the blood of Christians and Jews!

Get outta here! Guys, about time we banned this trouble maker!



STOP! Engage brain before operating mouth! Where did I say ALL muslims? Read what I said, and you'll see I did not say that. I said virtually and was responding to contributors on this forum. You want to ban somebody and call them names because they say something different to your way of thinking? Oh, how adult that is! How do you manage in the real world?

[Noman Habib]

[QUOTE=Noman Habib] one wonders about the Jewish persecution since centuries at the hands of everyone from prehistoric era till today.Is every one is at fault since 5000 years and only these guys are right?

It seems that you and virtually all muslims are programmed to hate jews. Why is this?
As has been raised by other correspondents they are few in number and scattered around the globe. They are survivors who have endured centuries of discrimination. They are also successful, hard working, usually cultured and prosperous. It seems that all peoples might well benefit from studying them rather than hating them without really knowing why.
Honestly no there are good people amongst them too but the problem is why it is always them.To be a target you need to do something at least.For example recent example in history be honest and tell me what they are trying to do with palistinians and breaking of ceasefire in Lebanon and their states behaviour overall what would you expect from Arabs if at all they capture Israel. their own deeds /believes and them being superior race notion brought them misery.Muslim did not do anything to them it was Christians and Romans and europeans
who had been killing Jews

[zia ul haq]

Asalaamo-a-laikum.

He's not a trouble maker and what he said could have been answered perfectly well in a civilised manner. He is not likely to be banned because of it.

The question he asked was perfectly legitimate and there is a perfectly legitimate answer. There have been periodic tensions between Jews and Muslims over time, (as there have been tensions between Jews and Christians - but no where near as severe, there were no Holocausts of jews under Muslim rule).

In recent times however Muslim/Jew tension has been stoked by the creation of Israel. The Jews who lived in Palestine didn't want the creation of Israel as they thought it would destroy their relationship with the Arabs, (Christian and Muslim), and they thought Israel could only exist with the coming of the Messiah. Chaim Wiseman (he of "nobody cares about the fate of a 100,000 Arab niggers" fame) and his bunch of interlopers basically colluded with the British to hack off part of Arab/Muslim lands in the wake of the monumental mistake the Arabs made of siding with the British, and give it to these 'Jonny-come-latelys'.

After over a thousand years of living with the Jews and at times protecting them from Christian persecution, (the welcoming of Jews from Spain in particular after the Inquisition), Muslimsfeel betrayed and quite literally stabbed in the back by the Jews. Some have bought into conspiracy theories as a result, but the main bone of contension is the creation of Israel.

I suppose in light of that explaination it can be regarded that Muslims are programmed to hate Jews. It's a very simplistic theory though and does not take explain the far longer period in history when Jews found protection and their culture flourished under Muslim rule.

[glyn]

I can easily agree with with much of the content of Zia al Haq and Noman Habibs posts. It is a very complex problem. The competing religions further complicates matters. Faith against faith is even more bitter than race against race, and as we've seen all too often, thats bad enough. Israel won no new friends with its invasion of Lebanon, and the spin doctor they kept putting on TV to answer charges from news commentators was slick - but wholly unconvincing. The sympathy of the viewing public was firmly on the side of Lebanon. But hatred is an all-consuming and corrosive emotion which blinds people to truth and reality. As you in effect say, there is good (and bad) in all races and nations.
Luckily, in my travels round the world I have found vastly more good than bad.
One question that must be asked is 'how long should emnity last?' As I wrote some time ago, a very good friend of mine is German. Britain and Germany were mortal enemies in 2 World Wars. My father and his, had they met each other in the 1939-45 period would undoubtably have tried to kill the other - and wouldn't have thought twice about it, as would our grandfathers have done in the first world war 1914-18. I feel that it is up to people of goodwill everywhere to at least try and make dialogue with those perceived to be our enemies, but with whom we are not actually at war. Once dialogue has been opened things may hopefully begin to improve. It will take effort on all sides to achieve this, and there are bound to be those who do not wish to see contact made, but we must try.

[mHussain]

My intention was not to incite hatred against anybody, it was just a statement of my researches on the former Soviet leadership and how all the important people seemed to be jewish. I do however, consider the jewish nation of Israel and zionists to be my people's "enemies" or "opponenets". I however consider this at the macro political level. At the personal level I have nothing against any ordinary jew - for instance one of my favorite professors is jewish and if he were my student I would not have been prejudiced against him. Noam Chomsky is jewish and I have the utmost respect for him.

I think we've drifted way off topic and maybe this thread should be closed.

[hammadiqbal]

Valdimir:

There are still remanents of the 70's communist movement in Pakistan. They usually go by names like Workers-Farmers party/movement (Mazdoor kissan tehreek), but have certainly been weakened by the collaspe of Soviet Union, losing much of their financial and ideological backing. In the current enviornment of rising religious identity I would think that they will be finding their movement to be more hopeless then ever.

Here is a article on wiki with a couple of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Pakistan

good luck on your research.