UAV's Development !! [Archive]

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Rafi

11-14-2001, 04:58 PM

There has been news that the NDC and AWC UAv's have been a hit in the Dubai air show, with many countries showin keen interest.

This is proof that Pakistans defence R & D establishment though small is doin it's job of providin us with state-of-the-art weaponry.

Any comments ps. any info on Paks turbo-prop UAV

A Haider

11-14-2001, 05:45 PM

'Export of Pak-made UAVs soon'
'Export of Pak-made UAVs soon'

By Mohammed Abdul Qudoos

DUBAI: Pakistan manufactured Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) are to be supplied to the countries of the Asian and Gulf regions soon. "We are holding serious negotiations with some countries in these regions and expect the deals to be finalised soon," Group Captain (Rtd) Ijaz A. Khan, general manager marketing at the manufacturer, National Development Complex (NDC), said at the Dubai 2001 air show on Monday.

The NDC is a subsidiary of National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM). "After having sold the competitively priced AUVs to the Pakistan Air Force, the NDC decided to market them abroad because they proved to be very successful being equipped with top of the line sophisticated systems using modem technology," Ijaz said. NDC is participating in the Dubai air show for the first time.

Earlier it attended the International Defence Exhibition in Abu Dhabi and a few exhibitions in other countries. "At present, the NDC is relifing anti tank and anti ship missiles to upgrade their penetration range and to extend their life by 10 years; working on the development of multiple launch rocket system; and developing UAVs of longer endurance and ranges," he said. He said that at Dubai air show, the NDC was displaying three UAVs.

Ijaz said that NDC was created by the government of Pakistan to develop state-of-the-art weapon systems to meet Pakistan's defence requirements for the 21st century at most competitive prices. It has developed tactical weapons and has the capability in reverse engineering and complex electro-mechanical systems.

"The NDC weapons systems can deliver to the utmost limits when they are needed the most," he said. In addition to Vector MK-2, Nishan MK-2 and Hornet MK-5 UAVs, its products include cluster bomb units including combined effect munitions and anti armour bomb; Star Fish naval ground mines, military batteries, anti armour tandem warhead; and defence electronics.

NDC services include relifing of missile systems, research and development, development of software and turnkey defence projects. The Vector MK-2 is a surveillance and reconnaissance UAV with a maximum range of 200 km, ceiling of 12,000 feet, real time imaging and endurance of four to five hours and speed of 75 to 205 km per hour. It has a low radar signature and employs Microwave C 3 system.

The Nishan MK-2 is a dedicated aerial target system in addition to being a UAV with a maximum range of 35 km GPS/autonomous, height ceiling of 5,000 feet, endurance of one hour and 35 minutes, and speed range of 130 to 370 km per hour. It has an all composite all-frame, UHF telecommand link, microwave telemetry and adaptive guidance system.

The Hornet MK-5 is a reconnaissance UAV and can be used as an aerial target having a maximum range of 50 Km GPS/autonomous, height ceiling of 6,000 feet, endurance of four hours, speed of 90 to 384 km per hour, real time imaging, FEBA monitoring, and jam-resistant communication.

Rafi

06-08-2002, 10:30 AM

How about our own UAV's, they are pretty good, some of this tech came from the Chinese who got it from the isrealis how ironic.

Rafi

06-08-2002, 10:33 AM

I recall reading about a NDC uav with the capability to fly 80,000 feet and having a range of 250 km any more info. I think it was called Nishan

Usman Shabbir

06-08-2002, 11:25 AM

NDC is producing Vector and Nishan models. According to Janes the former flew in prototype form in the mid-1990s and series production was expected to get underway in 2001. It has a wingspan of just over 7m, the Vector can carry a 25kg payload for up to eight hours at heights up to 15,000ft.

Some other private and public companies are also producing UAV’s in Pakistan. Try these links for details: http://www.awc.com.pk/main.html & www.satuma.com.pk

azeemchoudhary

06-08-2002, 03:50 PM

AoA
on the issue of UAV development, more specifically on attack UAV development, IAI of isreal has developed an attack UAV called the "Harpy", here is the website :
http://www.iai.co.il/dows/dows/Serve/level/English/1.1.4.2.7.3.html (http://)
now if u compare that with a Pakistani drone, the Tunder:
http://www.satuma.com.pk/ (http://)
they appear to be very similar except that the Pakistan one just a drone, now could it be possible for it to be developed a little further so that it too may be used as an attack UAV, a crude one maybe but probably a cheap one, now of course to develop a proper multi-purpose UAV, like in the class of the predator, we need to aggressively work on the many UAV's that we have in Pakistan, there is, as far as i know, 3 from NDC, theres the Vector MK-2, Nishan MK-2 and Hornet MK-5, from AWC, there are 2, and from satuma there is 1 UAV, for currently there is no need to develop any "new" versions we should work on these to develop greater ranges, more payload capability, greater endurance, more versitility(i.e. greater type of possible missions including, longer range attack UAVs). and there is also a fairly large market for such equipment too.

Shaan

06-11-2002, 08:52 PM

Also, Pakistani Air Force officials have stated that with the downing of the Israeli-made Indian UAV, there will be an 8-10 year jump in Pakistani UAV program due to the reverse engineering that will take place.

SyedA

06-12-2002, 10:17 PM

June 2002 Air International mentiones that Pakistan has fielded number of UAVs with possible financial assistance from Gulf countries. The most recent one is vector tactical UAV. The most probable source of the technology is CHina and it may have takem delivery of Chinese Chong Hong 1 which are reversed engineered Ryan 174.

I tried to search on these two but didn't find anything, now you guys have a task to do ;)

afridi

06-12-2002, 11:47 PM

I think you need to search for :

1. Chang Hong 1 (an old chinese project....late 70s early 80s).

2. Teledyne Ryan: Its a very old company and dealt mainly with pilotless vehicles (drones, cruise engines and UAVs). Their AQM 34 (which was "thought" to have been the inspiration for the Chang Hong ) were used extensively in Vietnam. This was actually a target drone, modified to make into a Remotely piloted vehicle for recce. The result was the model "147" .....(not the 174 as said in that report). It had 20+ different variants with the 147SC being the most widely used. (also called AQM 34L or M? or AQM 40..... I'll check and amend accordingly).

Just to add-on.... the Pak vector would not fit the bill for a tech transfer of the 147 or CH-1. (different dynamics). It has become a fashion to label everything we do as a clone, sometimes rightly, sometimes rongly.

Sheikh

06-13-2002, 07:05 AM

What about Kamakazi UAVs? They are used extensively by Israel and are a cheap alternative to Cruise missiles. I don't think it should be too hard to make cause we already produce UAVs, we just need to at a warhead to it!

What do you guys think?

Rafaqat

06-13-2002, 10:21 AM

Teledyne ryan is practically terh same as northrp grumman now.

Usman Shabbir

07-29-2008, 09:45 AM

Gaf

07-29-2008, 06:14 PM

New Mini UAV - Stingray Launched. Successful flight tests of new electric powered mini UAV were performed to varify new Airframe design.
Date: 5/7/2008 4:30:00 PM

Pictures & videos: http://www.neutek.biz/Media.aspx?ProdID=4

This company has been around for a very longtime, yet has not managed to progress beyond making small toys. They have illustrated little progress, with very little potential to progress beyond where they are.

Ghulam Muhammad

07-30-2008, 12:18 AM

Dear Brothers Assalam o Alaikum

PAF procurement of Falco UAV and PA induction of Luna UAV

Is it in additon to local products or

is it due to the performance issues. could someone kindly comment.

Usman Shabbir

07-30-2008, 03:55 AM

Dear Brothers Assalam o Alaikum

PAF procurement of Falco UAV and PA induction of Luna UAV

Is it in additon to local products or

is it due to the performance issues. could someone kindly comment.

It is in addition to the local products.

Champ

08-01-2008, 11:29 AM

Here is a little Contribution from me in Pakistan UAV program as i have been following it from a long time.

The list given below is of the UAV's currently in Service with Pakistan Army.

-Nishan Mk1 (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Vision MK1 (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Vision MK2 (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Nishan TJ 1000 (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Tornado (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-LUNA

-Border Eagle (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Hornet (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Hawk (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Hawk Mk1 (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Shadow (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-Vector (indigenous ) by (Integrated Dynamics Pakistan)

-JASSOS (indigenous) by (SATUMA Pakistan)

-Bazz (indigenous ) by (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex)

-Ababbel (indigenous ) by (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex)

-Bravo (indigenous ) by ( Air Weapon Complex)

-UQAB (indigenous) by ( Air Weapon Complex)

Regards
Champ

Hamza T

08-01-2008, 12:21 PM

SSAAD

08-01-2008, 12:36 PM

Champ

08-01-2008, 01:23 PM

Champ,

Just a few thoughts of my own..

Thanks for putting this list together however I can assure you that there is no way that Pakistan Army, PAF and PN combined could be operating this many different types of drones, UAVs. I am sure PAC and ID have offered these versions to the armed forces but they probably have refused quite a few from the list. The licensed production of Luna in country is an indication that the indigenous ones may have been found to be lacking in some way.

SSAAD you may be correct in some sense, but the i mentioned above is not only of the Spy UAV's but it is of Target Drones like Nishan Series & Explorer Drones, some of the Drone were used in PA but were stored due to their Newer Versions Like Vision series.

I can assure you the list i have posted was of the UAV's Served in PA & are currently in service.

& now on the other hand, there are too many UAV's rejected by PA offered by local firms which i have not put in the list, like MARK, STREEM, SAYIA, SPARK etc.

Regards
Champ

SSAAD

08-01-2008, 01:41 PM

SSAAD you may be correct in some sense, but the i mentioned above is not only of the Spy UAV's but it is of Target Drones like Nishan Series & Explorer Drones, some of the Drone were used in PA but were stored due to their Newer Versions Like Vision series.

I can assure you the list i have posted was of the UAV's Served in PA & are currently in service.

& now on the other hand, there are too many UAV's rejected by PA offered by local firms which i have not put in the list, like MARK, STREEM, SAYIA, SPARK etc.

Regards
Champ

Ok understood. Thanks for the clarification.

Champ

08-01-2008, 01:43 PM

What about the UAV that we aquired from Italy just a few months ago? I believe it was designated 'Falco'

Falco(Italy) & LUNA(Germany) were never acquired to use in PA for Reconcission, they were acquired Bcoz we need to study some foreign systems to improve our system with some variation from westren countries, basically we needed to study the data link system of Falco. bcoz in Nishan uav X series we were having troubles at high altitudes in data linking system. so we needed to study the data link system of another UAV. & some other problems

these UAV's were not obtained for reconcission they were for research.

Regards
Champ

Adam

08-01-2008, 08:05 PM

Falco(Italy) & LUNA(Germany) were never acquired to use in PA for Reconcission, they were acquired Bcoz we need to study some foreign systems to improve our system with some variation from westren countries, basically we needed to study the data link system of Falco. bcoz in Nishan uav X series we were having troubles at high altitudes in data linking system. so we needed to study the data link system of another UAV. & some other problems

these UAV's were not obtained for reconcission they were for research.

Regards
Champ

Sorry, let me get this right, we license build some European UAVs, which is quite a costly undertaking, simply to reverse engineer the technology??? :confused:

There was news recently that it was the PAF which operates the Falco, not the PA, although I don't see whats wrong with the PA using this as an ariel reconessaince platform. Sorry, but your arguments don't make sense.

Mian Asad

08-01-2008, 08:33 PM

May be because Falco has longer endurance and it may be more of an overkill for the army.Cost may also be a factor. Falco can also paint targets with lasers for LGBs.

Army has its own UAV program under Nescom(the one tested some months ago).However, I really don't see any reason for the army to develop one since we have AWC/PAC and Integrated Dynamics but it helps in creating a competitive environment.

About the under license production of Falco.Well the same machines(used to manufacture Falco) can be used to make better UAVs for Air force just like Tanks made/rebuilt by HIT share a percentage of parts.

On this forum i heard that we have 2 squadrons of Falco. May be those are enough for now and the tools would be used to make newer ones.

Just my two cents.

Champ

08-02-2008, 12:25 AM

Sorry, let me get this right, we license build some European UAVs, which is quite a costly undertaking, simply to reverse engineer the technology???

There was news recently that it was the PAF which operates the Falco, not the PA, although I don't see whats wrong with the PA using this as an ariel reconessaince platform. Sorry, but your arguments don't make sense.
Brother , sometimes you have to go two steps backward to take a one step forward.
Falco was not obtained under TOT we already have an Pakistani alternative of Falco under the name of JASSOS, UQAB.
We were Facing some technical difficulties to take our UAV program to next level so to solve these difficulties our engeniers decided not to waste any more time but to RE.

i hope you got my point.

Regards
Champ

Adam

08-02-2008, 02:52 PM

Brother , sometimes you have to go two steps backward to take a one step forward.
Falco was not obtained under TOT we already have an Pakistani alternative of Falco under the name of JASSOS, UQAB.
We were Facing some technical difficulties to take our UAV program to next level so to solve these difficulties our engeniers decided not to waste any more time but to RE.

i hope you got my point.

Regards
Champ

Your logic doesn't make sense. You're saying we bought a few examlpes of the Falco simply to reverse engineer!!???

If we wanted to improve the tech levels in our UAVs, we could simply purchase the kit from European or US sources, I dont think there would be any restrictions on us getting the tech. Or we could get the tech hasle free from our Chinese friends. Perhaps you seem to be forgetting how long it will take to reverse engineer, look at the Chinese efforts. Would be simpler and quicker to purchase the technology for our UAVs, and in the long term, develop more advanced UAVs based on the kit we get.

Fahad L

08-02-2008, 03:09 PM

Adam

08-02-2008, 03:27 PM

Adam those systems might have been bought as front line systems until the local companies can come up with their own solutions.We have deep need for UAVs with modern systems such these plus sensor fusion.

Thats exactly the point I'm making. The Falco wasn't bought to sit in a workshop for our engineers to dismantle. It was bought for active service. No doubt we are likley to learn from the technology level in the Falco and incorporate into our own UAVs. But for the short term, we either buy advanced UAVs or the technology, such as advanced sensors and command and control technology, for oue own UAVs.

Champ

08-03-2008, 12:06 AM

Gaf

08-03-2008, 09:45 AM

Now this is a UAV.. http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/fast-forward-fo.html#more

Mian Asad

08-03-2008, 10:05 AM

Champ might be right.We have only two wind tunnels.One is in GIKI university and other is with the armed forces(also bought by GIKI).

Alam

08-03-2008, 12:09 PM

There is also another one at IST.

Mian Asad

08-03-2008, 12:30 PM

I never knew that.Thank you for the information.

Adam

08-03-2008, 03:12 PM

Adam as i have told we already have an local replacement of Falco in the name of UQAB & JASSOS, i dont know y you are not getting my point.
i am saying that we were facing some technical difficulties in our Nishan X series & some other UAV's it will have taken a lot of time to do this on our own, since infrastructure here is not quite suitable. & if we have asked for the EU to provide us with the tec they would have never done that, so we decided to RE the UAV we bought from them.

I hope you got my point. but if still not i will clarify it in detail.

Regards
Champ

If we have a UAV with similar performance to the Falco, why buy the Falco then? :confused:

I'm doubtfull about the Uqab and Jassoos being equivalent to the Falco, both in terms of flight performance and the electronic equipment.

As far as I know, the Nishan, judging by its name, is not a UAV but a target drone. So why would we incorporating the Falco's tech level in a target drone? :confused:

So let me get this right, according to you, if we asked for some sensors and control equipment for our own UAVs, the European countreis would have refused. But instead we are buying the full UAV, which has all this equipment anyway, and the Europeans are willing to supply the UAVs, right? Do you see where your logic and argument collapse?

The west considers us an ally on the war on terror, they are fully aware that for us to perfor that role, we need UAVs, the best ones going. The fact being that the US is using the same kind of UAVs in the same scenario, as demonstrated by the ample missile strikes around the Pak'Afgan border region. If the western countries are willing to give high tech UAVs, they wouldn't hesitate to provide the sensors etc for our own UAVs

jawad

08-15-2008, 09:38 AM

If you see the different news regarding the Uqaab it says that there will be two versions one will be tactical version of UAV with the flying range of 150km onwards while other one will be a strategic version of the UAV can go up to 350km onwards.Both tactical and strategic versions of UAV systems can undertake a pre-programmed mission or can be piloted by the Air Vehicle Controller.The strategic version of the UAV has the capability to adapt to the change of mission during the flight. It can transmit information and data through ground control station and can even change the flight path, height and speed according to the situation.

Now there were three companies offering the tactical version Integrated Defense Systems (IDS with its ‘Huma-1 and under development Huma-II, second one was Advanced Computing and Engineering Solutions ACES with its Eagle-Eye-P1 UAV and larger Eagle-Eye P-II UAV and third is Albadeey with its Hud Hud II UAV and Hud Hud III UAV which is an enlarged version of the Hud Hud II UAV

Following is the data from ideas 2006 report of PAKDEF and Flight International Pakistan looks to develop indigenous UAV capability By Peter La Franchi

Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) exhibited its ‘Huma-1’ tactical UAV in ideas 2006. It was a composite UAV that performs a wide range of remote sensing tasks. Range is 500km, max speed 180km/h, endurance 5-6hrs, and it has a 100km operational radius. It carries a 20kg payload and includes a real-time video transmission system. It has a 14.4ft (4.4m) wing span, 130kg (285lb) maximum take-off weight, zero length take-off using a rocket booster and is recovered by parachute. The truck-launched Huma-1 has been flying since 2003 and is intended to operate as a battlefield surveillance and reconnaissance asset. IDS says that, in addition to Huma-1, it is now working on a larger derivative that will provide increased payload and endurance but will remain within the tactical air vehicle category.

Advanced Computing and Engineering Solutions ACES displayed its ‘Eagle-Eye-P1’ UAV and also exhibited the ground Control Station (GCS) from which it is controlled. The ‘Eagle Eye-P1’ tactical UAV has an 80km range, 3hr endurance, and 120km max speed. Tracking is GPS based, and it carries a 30kg payload of a 'pan, tilt & zoom' video camera for real time digital video surveillance. The Eagle Eye PI/II systems are both runway dependent. ‘Eagle Eye-P1’ with a 16.5ft span and 130kg MTOW flew for the first time in 2002, ‘Eagle Eye-PII have 18.9ft span, MTOW of 175kg PII followed in 2005. ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV has a 100km range, 4hr endurance, and 150km max speed. Tracking is GPS based, and it carries a 40kg payload of a video camera and telemetry system for real time digital video surveillance. It is controlled from a GCS.
Albadeey also displayed two surveillance UAVs, the ‘Hud Hud II’ and ‘Hud Hud III’. The ‘Hud Hud III’ is an enlarged version of the ‘Hud Hud II’ with greater endurance (6hrs) and range (100km). It can carry a 40kg payload which is usually a high resolution CCD camera, GPS, and frequency modulated L Band video transmitter.

From above data you can see that almost all the competitors have 100km operational radius which is less then required 150km. we know that this data is at least year or two old ie from the time Uqaab UAV was selected by the Pakistan Army for production.
Now if you campare the picture of the tactical version of Uqaab UAV with the three competitors it looks almost similar to the ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV’s picture which is posted on ideas 2006 report

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9743/610xb9fb82da8.jpg
http://pakdef.info/exhibitions/ideas2006/thumbs/IMGP0836.JPG

On March 20 Thursday Pakistan successfully conducted a final test flight of its indigenously-developed Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV). Chief of the Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, senior military officers and scientists witnessed the test of the Uqaab (eagle). This test flight was preceded by a series of trials in 2007.
Due to similarity of pictures of tactical version of Uqaab UAV and ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV and also because of name Uqaab = Eagle, I have concluded that tactical version of Uqaab UAV is improved version of the ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV {which have 18.9ft span, MTOW of 175kg PII followed in 2005. ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV has a 100km range, 4hr endurance, and 150km max speed} to meet the specific requirements of Pakistan Army

A strategic version of the Uqaab UAV that will go to 350km+ is under development and will need to incorporate advance technologies is taking longer time in development. Strategic version of the Uqaab UAV is most likely to be operated by the Pakistan Airforce and Pakistan navy might at some time in future look into acquiring its own squadron of strategic version of the Uqaab UAV with a SAR for maritime surveillance, with the antenna stored in a large belly fairing
Because the strategic version of the Uqaab UAV is yet not ready and USA declined repeated Pakistani requests for the General Atomics RQ-1 Predator with MTOW of 686kg, payload capacity of 225 kilograms, endurance of 24 hours and MQ-1 ARMED PREDATOR with Hellfire anti-armor missiles and outside USA. Sagem tried to promote new medium-altitude, high endurance version of their Sperwer to Pakistan in ideas 2006 but was rejected, the Sperwer LE (Long Endurance), with a weight of 350 kilograms , a wingspan of 6.5 meters , and a length of 3.5 meters Sperwer LE was being designed to cruise at 6,000 meters (20,000 feet) for twelve hours.it could cappy a 50 kilogram payload

ISRAELI IAI offers to its customers E-HUNTER with MTOW of 950kg, endurance of 25 hours, IAI MALAT SEARCHER II with MTOW of 500kg, endurance of 18 hours and IAI HERON with MTOW of 1100kg, payload capacity of 200 kilograms, endurance of upto 50 hours with orders from India and in the spring of 2005, the Turkish military ordered the Heron from IAI, with the order including ten ground stations with three or four UAVs each
India has from Israel
Searacher-2 UAV 12(1996-1998)
Searacher-2 UAV 08(2002-2003)
Searacher-2 UAV 32(2000-2003)

Heron-MP UAV 04(2002-2003) for NAVY
Heron UAV 08(2002-2003)
Heron UAV 16-50(2006-2007)

HERMES 450 with MTOW of 800kg, payload capacity of 150 kilograms, endurance of 24 hours, HERMES 1500 with MTOW of 1500kg, payload capacity of 350 kilograms, endurance of 30 hours

European Aerospace & Defense Systems (EADS) company and IAI. Eagle 1 is a straightforward derivative of the IAI Heron and An "Eagle 2" with a turboprop engine, based on the Heron-TP, is in the works as a solution to the multinational EuroMALE requirement. The Eagle 2 will be able to loiter for 24 hours at 15,240 meters (50,000 feet) with a 450 kilogram (1,000 pound) payload.
Pakistan due to its stand on Palestine cannot buy from Israel and European Aerospace & Defense Systems who’s designs were based on IAI systems and USA has already rejected the request.

This leaves china which is making great strides in aerospace industry and is developing lots of UAVs in class of General Atomics RQ-1 Predator / MQ-1 ARMED PREDATOR/ and models shown in different defence exhibitions recent internet images shows a newle UAV in testing Phase in class of MQ-9 PREDATOR B/ RQ-4 GLOBAL HAWK, but non of them is available at this time.

So Pakistan Air force went to its second largest and very reliable defence supplier in EU ie to italy Finmeccanica unit Galileo Avionica of Italy was promoting a new piston-powered UAV Falco. The Falco has a traditional tactical UAV configuration, with fixed tricycle landing gear, a pusher prop, and a twin-boom tail, but it is larger, since it is intended for the medium-endurance niche; is made mostly of composites; and has sensor systems built into a "glass nose", not a turret. Falco has a wingspan of 7.2 meters and a length of 5.25 meters . Maximum speed is over 233 KPH (126 knots), operating altitude is over 6,000 meters (19,700 feet), and the machine can take off from a 60 meter airstrip or flight deck. It can carry a full 70 kilogram payload for eight hours, or a smaller payload for 14 hours. It has a hardpoint under each wing, with each hardpoint having a load capacity of 25 kilograms. Pakistan Air force conducted tests an falco UAV performed better then it was specified by the manufacturer, Falco UAV with its full load of 70 Kg remained in air for more then 9hours and 15 minutes which means that with smaller payload its maximum endurance will be much more then expected 14hours.Currenty Falco UAV is powered by a 65 HP gasoline engine, Finmeccanica unit Galileo Avionica is working on a new variant with a 80 HP fuel-injected engine that will be able to burn diesel fuel. Meteor is also conducting feasibility studies for issues relating to Falco weaponisation ‘including safety and targeting functionalities. According to manufacturer UAVs can significantly reduce the engagement chain (for stationary targets) however; UAVs are relatively vulnerable and need to be protected. Company is looking to embed redundant systems plus chaff and flare dispensers for weaponisation.

Pakistan air force had ordered about 12-20 Falco UAVs for 3-4 systems. Finmeccanica unit Galileo Avionica has meanwhile completed delivery of one Falco UAV system to Pakistan, with a second system due for delivery and an option on a third. Each system contains four UAVs and a ground control station. Falco have capability to carry electro-optic and infrared sensors, as well as radar if required. Pakistan is reportedly taking some sensors from Galileo Avionica as part of the deal and adding some of its own
http://www.app.com.pk/photo/photo_lib/20-04-2008/b98f436a79fbc3f5104229166f52506f.jpg

During 18 flight tests made by the customer(Pakistan), the Falco carried out a surveillance mission with a maximum payload lasting nine hours and 15 minutes, Galileo Avionica officials said in a Nov. 27 statement. “This performance shows that, by using an auxiliary fuel tank, the maximum range for the System would therefore exceed the 14 hours previously anticipated,” the company said in a Nov. 27 statement.

Other achievements during tests included jam-resistant, instant data linking with the Falco at a range of 200 kilometers; flights at altitudes up to 6,000 meters; automatic takeoff and landing; nighttime missions; and “autonomous navigation control system and automatic use, during flight, of different payloads,” the company said
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3211060&C=europe

Comparable Pakistani system is ID's NIGHT HAWK HALE UAV is a 100 mile range, 15hr endurance platform with a 125mph max speed. It can carry a 6kg payload in a combination of daylight/IR TV and still cameras that are activated as required. It is equipped with a UHF datalink.NIGHT HAWK HALE UAV have 15hr endurance from just 20L fuel as Nighthawk UAV is designed to act as a flying wing according to Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive Integrated Dynamics

Pakistan Army have also purchased 30? Luna UAV for 3 systems from Germany. The Luna was evaluated by the German Army in the Balkans in 2001 and saw service with German forces in Afghanistan LUNA has wingspan 3.98 meters, launch weight of 20 kilograms, endurance 4 hours and is launchd through Bungee catapult and recovered through Parachute. With launch weight of just 20 KG Luna UAV is in completely different class then that of tactical version of Uqaab UAV.

Comparable Pakistani system under development is ID's Desert Hawk low altitude and perimeter monitoring UAV is a carbon-composite platform equipped with micro gyro-stabilised payloads in its payload bay. It has a 100mph max speed, 18.75 mile range, an enhanceable 3hr endurance.

Sources
http://www.uavworld.com/uav_newsletter_issue_4.htm
http://www.vectorsite.net/twuav.html
http://pakdef.info/exhibitions/ideas2006/index.html
http://www.vectorsite.net/twuav_14.html

jawad

08-15-2008, 10:02 AM

interview was given to ARY in September last year and it was an hour long interview so I am forgetting lots of details here

Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive Integrated Dynamics interview to ARY TV

He said that currently the support from the government is on very small scale and army is more interested in purchases from aboard .Non of their system is in production for Pakistani armed forces. He said that till now none of the armed forces represented have visited the facility.
He said that when ever a customer comes to see their products, after evaluating the UAV systems they ask if it is in production or not for Pakistan military, he said that they (IDS) feel ashamed as non of system is in production for the domestic use, it is biggest hurdle in their UAV exports and he was of the view that if Pakistani armed forces and government supports them properly and place order for their systems then IDS can put Pakistan on UAV supply source map in the world market.

Raja Sabri said that ID is the only company in Pakistan that had exported the Pakistani made Uavs to highly developed countries like United States, Australia, South Korea, Spain and Libya; he also mentioned that Pakistan has capability to produce much more advance and capable systems if government supports the private sector. He said that Spain is interested in TOT form ID for Uavs.Now they have also developed Civilian UAV systems.He said that uavs developed by ID have operational range of 20 to 1600 kilometers and their product have almost the same system as UAV made in developed countries yet our rates are highly competitive. He said that Nighthawk High Altitude Long range UAV is already available with 15hr endurance from just 20L fuel as Nighthawk UAV is designed to act as a flying wing and even longer range versions can be designed and produced if such a requirement arises.

He also said that in Dubai air show he was invited to India and start selling its products to India which off course was rejected by him as he says his efforts are for strong defence of his country.

Integrated Dynamics is a Pakistani Private company manufacturing and exporting unmanned aerial vehicles.
Just take a look at company’s export success in 2007
http://www.idaerospace.com/news.html
INTEGRATED DYNAMICS, in collaboration with ROVER Environmental Systems, launches the ROVER and EXPLORER Civilian UAV systems. Designed to be low-cost platforms for research, Electronic News Gathering (ENG), and civilian patrol applications - this launch represents a significant milestone in civilian UAV development in the Australasia - Pacific region.

VISION MK-2 bound for ITALY!
INTEGRATED DYNAMICS is proud to be exporting its VISION MK-2 airframes to an Italian Research Institute. The VISION 2 is an ideal platform for robust operations and can be configured for carrying a variety of payloads and sensors.

INTEGRATED DYNAMICS wins repeat Spanish order!
After successful delivery of two completely fitted SHADOW MK-1 airframes, INTEGRATED DYNAMICS has now exported VISION MK-1 aircraft to a government customer for agricultural research applications.

SHADOW Down Under!
INTEGRATED DYNAMICS is proud to have an Australian customer for its SHADOW UAV which will be used for maritime research and participation in the Australian Outback Challenge competition in September. The SHADOW MK-1 is a field-proven airframe with many operational hours under its belt. It can be configured to carry various EO payloads, including our own GSP-900 & GSP-1200 gyro-stabilized platforms as well as a variety of other sensors.

I posted it here just give idea of what is going on the UAV industry of Pakistan

SATUMA Pakistan
There were news in the past of the supply of unspecified number of JASSOS Battlefield UAV’s and associated equipment to Saudi Arabia by Pakistani company SATUMA.

Pakistani Private Companies are certainly for more advance then what India is with millions and billions of Rupees invested in local programs and still they need Israel for import of the complete UAV systems and for future under the name of so-called joint venture where they will provide the most advance technology developed specially by the DRDO after years of research to Paint them in three colors for display, first is 100 million $ Rustam medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV with 24hr endurance, range of 300km and ability to use satellite links to extend its surveillance range beyond 1,000 kilometers( This will be very much in same class of strategic version of the Uqaab UAV which will have datalink range of 350 km), 33.2 million $ Pawan short-range UAV with 5hr endurance and range of 150km (in same class of tactical version of the Uqaab UAV which is in production for Pakistani Army)and 55.5 million $ Gagan tactical UAV range of 250km. We know from their Past and current experiences of PJ-10/ Paint Job joint ventures that they will get a good product because they will be investing only money in these projects as they know that any input from DRDO/ADE would require unlimited budget and would result in unlimited delay.

Mian Asad

08-15-2008, 10:49 AM

Due to similarity of pictures of tactical version of Uqaab UAV and ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV and also because of name Uqaab = Eagle, I have concluded that tactical version of Uqaab UAV is improved version of the ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV {which have 18.9ft span, MTOW of 175kg PII followed in 2005. ACES's Eagle Eye-P2 tactical UAV has a 100km range, 4hr endurance, and 150km max speed} to meet the specific requirements of Pakistan Army

I am amazed by your conclusion but i think the less said the better.There is a reason for similarity(if you know what i mean)..As i said earlier in another thread,Army has its own UAV program.I don't know why are they wasting precious time and money on their own program if they can hire INTEGRATED DYNAMICS for it.It will reduce the amount of funds spent. Its not that security will be compromised if ID works for them.

Adam

08-15-2008, 11:27 AM

Comparable Pakistani system is ID's NIGHT HAWK HALE UAV is a 100 mile range, 15hr endurance platform with a 125mph max speed. It can carry a 6kg payload in a combination of daylight/IR TV and still cameras that are activated as required. It is equipped with a UHF datalink.NIGHT HAWK HALE UAV have 15hr endurance from just 20L fuel as Nighthawk UAV is designed to act as a flying wing according to Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive Integrated Dynamics[/url]

A UAV with 100 mile range isn't a HALE UAV. Generally speaking, a HALE UAV is one which can operate above 30, 000 ft and indefinate range, suitable for strategic missions. Pakistan doesn't manufacture HALE strategic UAVs, only MALE and tactical systems.

jawad

08-15-2008, 01:27 PM

A UAV with 100 mile range isn't a HALE UAV. Generally speaking, a HALE UAV is one which can operate above 30, 000 ft and indefinate range, suitable for strategic missions. Pakistan doesn't manufacture HALE strategic UAVs, only MALE and tactical systems.

100mile is actually a datalink range not the max range of the UAV

You may or may not be right as IDS does not gives the information about the altitudes of NIGHT HAWK UAV we can only say what IDS tells us about the NIGHT HAWK.
Strategic version of the Uqaab UAV will have datalink range of 350km+ while for longer ranges, Uavs can use satellite links to extend its surveillance range.

jawad

11-12-2008, 04:48 PM

Pakistan Puts UAVs at Center of Technology Effort
By Usman Ansari
Published: 10 November 2008

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan's military industry has been steadily expanding the range and complexity of electronic products, components and subsystems it produces, especially related to the UAV sector.

The military privately admits India had a clear edge in UAV operations during the last major Indo-Pak stand-off in 2002. Indian forces had a larger number, and wider range, of UAVs available for battlefield surveillance and intelligence gathering.

Consequently, all three Pakistani military branches have sought to rectify this shortcoming. The Army has considerably increased its UAV inventory; the Air Force has formed two UAV squadrons (with the intention of fielding up to six); and the Navy tested the Schiebel Camcopter S-100 rotary UAV from a frigate in March. Although no selection has been made, a Navy spokesman said avenues for shipboard UAV operations were still being explored.

This does not appear to involve any domestic UAV producers, but much investment has been poured into domestic programs and the fruits of this are becoming evident both at home and abroad.

One of the companies at the forefront of this development is East West Infinity (EWI). EWI's latest products are the Heliquad micro tactical UAV and the Whisper Watch signals intelligence (SIGINT) package.
SIGINT has become more important with constant anti-terrorism operations on the frontier and in the tribal areas.

Finding Sophisticated Terrorists

Al-Qaida and Taliban fighters use not just mobile and satellite phones for communication, but also sophisticated military radios. SIGINT is therefore essential to locate the high-ranking terrorists driving operations.

According to Haroon Javed Qureshi, EWI's managing director, though UAV-mountable, "Whisper Watch is most effective when aerostat-mounted, as the platform is stationary and airborne for longer."
Designed for militaries unable to afford high-end, dedicated SIGINT platforms, Whisper Watch can detect and monitor electronic emissions up to 250 kilometers away and then retransmit to a ground station located out of harm's way.

The Heliquad was first displayed in prototype form at the IDEAS2006 defense exhibition. Equipped with a tiny camera, it can relay pictures back to troops or special forces in an urban environment or in the field, giving them a tactical recon ability.

Being exceptionally small and powered by four electric motors, it is highly stealthy and represents the cutting edge of EWI's electronics miniaturization.

Both products will be displayed in their current configuration for the first time at IDEAS2008 later this month.

Karachi-based Integrated Dynamics (ID) has also made a name for itself, not only for exporting its Border Eagle Mk-II UAV to the United States for border patrol duties, but also by exporting UAVs and related subsystems to Australia, Italy, Spain and others, CEO Raja Khan said.

A prolific designer and manufacturer of a wide range of UAV systems, ID has constantly pushed the boundaries of indigenous technology. This has resulted in very compact UAVs such as the 5-kilogram, hand-launched Rover and specialized decoys such as the Tornado.

The Rover is somewhat of a replacement for ID's Desert Hawk, which has been sold to a government agency. It is ID's smallest product, and has benefited extensively from ID's research into electronics miniaturization.

Its optical payload is a more advanced derivative of ID's smallest and lightest - less than 1 kilogram - gyro-stabilized payload, the infrared/low-light GSP-100 camera. Powered by a noiseless electric motor, Rover operates up to 1,000 feet and relays signals from its Pan/Tilt/Zoom camera via a telemetry data link. It has an endurance of an hour.

Though marketed for civilian use, such as news gathering and scientific research, its diminutive size and acoustic stealth mean it is just as useful for military operators.

The Tornado, however, is a turbojet-powered expendable decoy. Programmed to simulate an actual fighter aircraft, and with a range of 200 kilometers, it is loaded with flares and radar enhancement devices manufactured by ID. They emit false radar signals and electronic emissions to confuse enemy air defenses into thinking they are attacking aircraft.

While they are understandably shrouded in secrecy, they reflect Pakistan's increasing concerns over countering enemy air defenses, especially because it has a limited number of combat aircraft in comparison to archrival India. ■
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3811950&c=FEA&s=SPE

ndad

11-12-2008, 06:19 PM

Article certainly puts things into perspective. A question for those in the know. What became of the UAV that crashed in Pak in the recent past? Similarly, what became of the israeli made indian UAV that was shot down. Is tech from these shared with the above groups or not?

thanks
ndad

Mazhar

11-13-2008, 04:34 AM

[QUOTE=jawad;137196]Pakistan Puts UAVs at Center of Technology Effort
By Usman Ansari
Published: 10 November 2008

This does not appear to involve any domestic UAV producers, but much investment has been poured into domestic programs and the fruits of this are becoming evident both at home and abroad.

QUOTE]

I think the PAF UAV sqn are equipped with local UAVs (Satuma's product).

Usman Shabbir

11-13-2008, 05:09 AM

I think the PAF UAV sqn are equipped with local UAVs (Satuma's product).

Yes, other than the FALCO PAF also has two squadrons of SATUMA designed BRAVO+ UAV's. Additional BRAVO+ UAV's for a third squadron are also in production.

Usman Shabbir

11-13-2008, 05:09 AM

Pakistan Expands Unmanned Air Force

By Noah Shachtman

November 11, 2008 | 12:15:00 PM

America's killer drones are getting all the attention, in the fight against Pakistani militants. But Pakistan's military has plenty of unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs, too. And they're being used to spy on suspected insurgents, and listen in on their phone calls.

Since 2002, Pakistan has dramatically expanded its robotic fleet in the sky, Defense News reports. The Pakistani Air Force has two UAV squadrons -- and is looking to build up to six.

"Al-Qaida and Taliban fighters use not just mobile and satellite phones for communication, but also sophisticated military radios," Defense News notes. So companies like East West Infiniti are building SIGINT [signals intelligence] for small drones and robotic blimps, to capture those conversations.

Designed for militaries unable to afford high-end, dedicated SIGINT platforms, [East West's] Whisper Watch [system] can detect and monitor electronic emissions up to 250 kilometers away and then retransmit to a ground station located out of harms way.

Karachi-based Integrated Dynamics actually exports its Border Eagle surveillance drone to the United States for border patrol duties. The company also makes drones the turbojet-powered Tornado decoy, which can fly up to 200 kilometers, and emit false radar signals to "confuse enemy air defenses into thinking they are attacking aircraft," Defense News says.

The gear will all be on display at the end of the month, at IDEAS, Pakistan's big military trade show.

Mazhar

11-13-2008, 07:28 AM

jawad

11-13-2008, 02:43 PM

Yes, other than the FALCO PAF also has two squadrons of SATUMA designed BRAVO+ UAV's. Additional BRAVO+ UAV's for a third squadron are also in production.

i think BRAVO UAV was a product of Air weapon complex now SATUMA is with BRAVO+ UAV

So any one can explain whats going on here? imean to say is it a different UAV from Air weapon complex'BRAVO UAV? any description of this UAV? if yes then, why cant they find a difffernt name for it?

old news item

Pakistan promotes home-grown UAVs

The increasing efforts of Pakistan to develop an indigenous capability in unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) technology is evident on two stands in Hall 10. Some of those displayed have not been seen before outside Pakistan and the variety of designs is impressive.

The Air Weapons Complex has brought an example of its Bravo tactical UAV to IDEX for the first time. Shown in its first-generation form, this has been in production for some 18 months and is in service on border patrol and law enforcement duties. The all-composite Bravo has a strong airframe, carries a 15kg/20kg payload and operates at ranges of up to 80km. It is capable of flying autonomously on a preprogrammed flight plan, although this can be changed during flight if necessary.

From the same source, the Vision-1 uses the same airframe as the Bravo, but is fitted with a more powerful engine that enables payloads of up to 25kg to be carried. The Vision-1 is described as a second-generation design which can be put to more sophisticated roles than the earlier model. Typical payloads include FLIR sensors, IR scanners, CCD camera on fixed or gyro-stabilised platforms, and ELINT or COMINT sensors.

A greater variety of UAVs is produced by the National Development Complex, which has brought its Vector and Nishan models to the show. The former flew in prototype form in the mid-1990s but series production is not expected to get underway until the end of this year. However, with a wingspan of just over 7m, the Vector Mk 7 can carry a 25kg payload for up to eight hours at heights up to 15,000ft.

While the Vector has a conventional twin boom, rear-engined configuration, the NDC's delta-wing Nishan is one of a number of target drones in its product range, and it can also function as a decoy or missile simulator. Finally, the Hornet Mk 2 of conventional high-wing, tractor-engine design is another target drone produced by NDC, designed to carry smoke or infra-red flares on sorties out to a 20km range.

http://www.powmadeak47.com/me/idexuavs.html

http://www.awc.com.pk/bravo.htm
BRAVO is a tactical UAV system and operates at ranges of up to 80 km from the operating base. The UAV has an all-composite airframe. The use of the composite not only keeps the air frame weight down but is also very strong and makes it capable of surviving the rigorous battlefield environment. This, as a whole, results in a very efficient system.
The UAV is capable of flying autonomously on a pre-programmed flight plan that can be changed as per requirement during the mission as well. It can carry payloads of up to 15 to 20 kg. The typical payloads in this weight category include FLIR sensors, CCD camera on fixed or gyro-stabilized platforms.
The UAV can be launched by conventional wheeled take-off / rocket boosters (optional) and retrieved by wheeled landing / parachute recovery system (optional). The parachute recovery system can also be used for emergency recovery.

any news about the AWC's larger Shaspar UAV project that started in early 2000-01, which was to have a datalink range of 250km with ability to carry 50kg payload to heights up to 80,000ft??

jawad

11-17-2008, 10:10 AM

Zardari seeks drone technology from US

* President hopes new US admin will understand Pakistan’s anti-terror efforts

WASHINGTON: In an interview with the Washington Post on Sunday, President Asif Ali Zardari expressed his disapproval of the United States drone attacks on Pakistani areas along the Afghan border and urged Washington to provide the predator technology to Pakistan instead to enhance its ability to fight terrorism.

Hope: The president also voiced hope that the incoming Barack Obama administration would recognise Pakistan’s key anti-terror role as well as understand the fact that his country has been a victim of terrorism as well.

“We think we need a new dialogue, and we’re hoping that the new US government will understand that Pakistan has done more than they recognise” and was a victim of the same insurgency the US was fighting, he said. app

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008/11/17/story_17-11-2008_pg1_8