Pakistan Orbat

[Malghani]

Recently I believe Yasser put up the inventory of all Pakistani aircraft.
I want to go a step further. I'm putting up some Orbats. All of these are from open sources. So please spare me the "national interest" line. What I'd like is for you folks to go through the list and tell me of its authenticity.

Pakistan Army


1 Corps Mangla ( 1 Armored Div + 3 Inf. Div + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-6th Arm Division, Kharian ( 2 Arm Brigades)
--7th Arm Brigade, Kharian
--9th Arm Brigade, Kharian

-17th Inf Division, Kharian ( 3 Inf Brig)
--77th Inf Brigade Kharian,
--207th Inf Brigade Kharian,
--315th Inf Brigade Kharian &

-Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??



2 Corps Multan ( 1 Arm Div + 1 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig+ 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-1st Arm Div - Multan ( 2 brigades) *
---4th & 5th at Multan
-37th Inf Div - Gujranwala
---88th Inf. Brigade, Gujranwala
---Infantry Brigade (No.??, Loc.??)
---Infantry Brigade (No.??, Loc.??)

-10th Ind. Arm Brigade, Multan

-Independent Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??


4 Corps Lahore ( 3 Inf Divs + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-10th Inf Div Lahore ( 3 brigades)
---22nd Inf Brigade, Lahore
---103rd Inf Brigade, Lahore
---104th Inf Brigade, Lahore

-11th Inf Div Lahore ( 3 brigades) *
---21st Inf Brigade, Lahore
---52nd Inf Brigade, Lahore
---106th Inf Brigade, Lahore

-40th Inf Div Okara ( 3 brigades)
--Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
--Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
--Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

-3rd Ind Arm Brig at Lahore

-Ind Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??


5 Corps Karachi ( 2 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig )

-18th Inf Div - Malir, Karachi ( 3 brigades)
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

-16th Inf Div * (3 Brigades: Note: the location of these brigades doesn't seem that authentic, but a confirmation will be most welcomed***. )

---34th Inf Brigade, Chaman
---70th Inf Brigade, Khuzdar
---61st Inf Brigade, Quetta

-2nd Ind Arm Brigade, Malir, Karachi

-31st Ind Inf Brigade, Malir, Karachi


10th Corps Rawalpindi ( 3 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-12th Inf Division, ??? ( 6 Brigades) ---1st Inf Brigade, Dubail
---5th Inf Brigade, Gujra
---6th Inf Brigade, Bagh
---26th Inf Brigade, Aliabad
---32nd Inf Brigade, Khel
---75th Inf Brigade, Mandra

-19th Inf Division, Jhelum ( 3 Brig)
---2nd Inf Brigade, Rawalkot
---3rd Inf Brigade, Kotli
---7th Inf Brigade, Jarikhas

-23rd Inf Division, Akhnur ( 4 Brig)
---4th Inf Brigade, Bhimbar
---20th Inf Brigade, Chaamb
---28th Inf Brigade, Mangla
---66th Inf Brigade, Tanda

-111th Ind Inf Brigade, Rawalpindi

-Ind Armoured Brigade No.?? Loc.??


11 Corps Peshawer ( 2 Inf Div + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-7th Inf Division, Peshawer - ( 3 brigades) *
---6th Inf Brigade, Khar
---27th Inf Brigade,Landi Kotal
---102nd Inf Brigade, Peshawar

-9th Inf Div at Mardan - ( 3 brigades) *
---73rd Inf Brigade, Thal
---116th Inf Brigade, Miran Shah ---117th Inf Brigade, Kohat

-Ind Inf Brigade No.?? Loc.??


12 Corps Quetta ( 2 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-33th Inf Division, Quetta ( 3 brigades) *
---29th Inf Brigade, Zhob
---205th Inf Brigade, Quetta
---60th Inf Brigade, Rahim Yar Khan

-41st Inf Division at Quetta ( 3 brigades)
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??
---Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

-Independent Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

-Independent Armored Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

30th Corps Gujranwala ( 2 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-7th Inf Division, Sialkot ( 3 Brig)
---14th Para Brigade, Sialkot ---24th Inf Brigade, Sialkot ---124th Inf Brigade, Sialkot

-15th Inf Division Sialkot ( 4 Brigades)
---10th Inf Brigade, Sialkot ---101st Inf Brigade, Sialkot,
---114th Inf Brigade, Sialkot,
---313rd Inf Brigade, Sialkot

-8th Independent Armored Brigade, Sialkot(?)

-54th Independent Inf Brigade, Sialkot


31st Corps Pano Aqil ( 2 Inf Div + 1 Ind Arm Brig + 1 Ind Inf Brig)

-14th Inf Div at Bahawalnager ( 3 brigades) *
---23rd Inf Brigade, ?
---74th Inf Brigade, ?
---105th Inf Brigade, ?

-35th Inf Div at Bahawalpur ( 3 brigades) *
---25th Inf Brigade, ?
---53rd Inf Brigade, ?
---57th Inf Brigade, Bahawalpur
-Independent Infantry Brigade No.?? Loc. ??

-Independent Armored Brigade No.?? Loc. ??


Northern Light Infantry Gilgit ( 4 brig)
---? Brigade, Gilgit
---? Brigade, Astor
---? Brigade, Skardu
---? Brigade, Kappalu


PLUS (following are distributed among the above formations)

-8 Air Defense Brigades
-9 Artillery Brigades
-7 Engineering Brigades
-1 SSG Brigade (3 Battallions)
-3 Armed Reccon Regiments
-17+ Aviation Squadrons

***It seems to me that the 18th Division is spread somewhere in Southern Sindh, Karachi, Hyderabad, Thatta etc. And 16th Division is distributed among South Eastern Balochistan. Not in Chaman or Quetta. Its hard to imagine that Brigades from 5th Corp based in Karachi would be stationed in and around Quetta already an HQ for another (12th) Corp.

[Malghani]

Following is the inventory of the Aircraft in PAF service:


32 = F-16A/B
210+40 = F-7P
42 = A-5
85 = Mirage III
12 = Mirage IIIRP
52 = Mirage 5
30 = FT-5
40 = T-37B
30 = Super Mushshak
8 = K-8
3 = 707-320
1 = 737
13 = C-130s
4 = CN235M
2 = F-27 Fokker
1 = Falcon 20 E
2 = Falcon 20 EW
2 = Y-12 II
2 = Baron King Air
1 = PA-34 Seneca
1 = Citation V
1 = Cessna 172
15 = SA316B Alouette III

The aircraft are divided among the following units.

PAF Base Chaklala, Rawalpindi
-6th Squad: C-130
-12th Squad: 707, 737, Falcon 20, F-27 Fokker
-41st Squad: Cessna 172 + others


PAF Base Minhas, Kamra
-14th Squad: F-7P
-15th Squad: F-7P

PAF Base Masroor, Karachi
-2nd Squad: F-7P
-7th Squad: Mirage 5
-8th Squad: Mirage 5
-22nd Squad: Mirage 5
-84th Squad: Alouette III

PAF Base Mianwali, Mianwali
-1st Squad: FT-5
-19th Squad: F-7P
-25th Squad: F-7P
-86th Squad: Alouette III

PAF Base Peshawar, Peshawar
-16th Squad: A-5C
-26th Squad: A-5C
-81st Squad: Alouette III

PAF Base Samungli, Quetta
-17th Squad: F-6
-23rd Squad: F-6
-85th Squad: Alouette III

PAF Base Sargodha, Sargodha
-9th Squad: F-16
-11th Squad: F-16
-24th Squad: Falcon 20
-82nd Squad: Alouette III

-Combat Commander School
--- F-7 School
--- Mirage School

PAF Base Rafiqui, Sharkot
-5th Squad: Mirage III
-18th Squad: F-7P
-20th Squad: F-7P
-83rd Squad: Alouette III

[SyedA]

Pakistan Army Corps 2002

v.2.0 November 11, 2001

Mandeep Singh Bajwa, Babar Mahmud & Ravi Rikhye

· Pakistan Army Corps HQs: Background

· Strategic Rationale: A Note by Ravi Rikhye

· A Short History: by Babur Mahmud

For some time Pakistan has been considering army HQs: its geography and operational requirements do logically require a Northern, Central, and Southern Command. For economic reasons, however, adding another command layer may not be feasible. Prior to 1971, Pakistan forces in East Pakistan were under a separate Eastern Command, but there was no corresponding Western Command.

Indeed, Pakistan for many years even tried to do without corps HQs, pferring to control divisions directly from Army HQ. In the 1965 War it had just one corps HQ: I Corps (Mangla), and plans for a new IV Corps (Lahore). Even with the relatively few divisions it had at that time (1 and 6 Armored, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 Divisions, plus 14 Division in East Pakistan, this did not work out, because of the enormous length of the front, over 2250 kilometers from the Siachin to the Arabian Sea.

By 1971 Pakistan had raised II Corps (Multan) as a reserve; it had, in the west, 1 and 6 Armored, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17, 18, 23, and 33 Division at the time of the war. I Corps controlled 6 Armored, 8, 15, and 17 Infantry Divisions; IV Corps had 10 and 11 Infantry Divisions; and II Corps had 1 Armored and 7 Infantry Divisions. In Kashmir 12 and 23 Divisions were not under a corps HQ; in southern Multan and Sindh 18 and 33 Divisions were also not under a corps.

Between 1971 and 1986 Pakistan became determined to add more corps HQs. X Corps was raised at Rawalpindi; XXX Corps at Sialkot; XXXI Corps at Bhawalpur; V Corps at Karachi; XI Corps at Peshawar; and XII Corps at Quetta. Except for IV and X Corps which had three divisions each, other corps had two divisions each. Equally important, Pakistan spent the next ten years or so bulking up its corps with the necessary supporting troops. Pakistan had always pferred to put as much as possible of its resources into divisions, but now it raised artillery, engineer, and independent brigades for all its corps. Sometime corps even had two independent brigades.

This bulking up helps explain why Pakistan has not raised an significant number of new divisions since 1972, when six new divisions came into existence (including three with the flags of divisions lost in the East; two of those divisions had already been replaced in March 1971 with new divisions). Aside from two divisions raised for the Afghan front late in the 1980s, and perhaps another, Pakistan has raised no new divisions in almost 30 years. There are other reasons too, the main being that Pakistan believes India is so tied up in Kashmir that Pakistan does not need new divisions beyond one for the Northern Areas to counter the Indian division now at Drass. Also, India, its energies diverted to raising counterinsurgency troops, has raised no new division since 1984, though another division may be raising soon.

With nine corps, Pakistan has more corps HQs than it had divisions in 1965. Just as it found inadequate its 1965 control structure, in the event of a future conflict it will find that for GHQ to control nine corps directly is difficult. Pakistan realizes this, of course, but only another emergency with India is likely to shake loose the additional funds the Army needs on this account.

Pakistan Corps, North to South:

Force Command Northern Areas (Gilgit)

(post 1999 akin to a corps command)

one division

four independent brigades
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


X Corps (Rawalpindi)

three holding infantry divisions for Jammu and Kashmir; three extra brigades

one tank, one infantry independent brigades
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I Corps (Mangla)

One armored, one infantry division, also called Army Reserve North

One independent tank brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XI Corps (Peshawar)

One division - the second is with FCNA - this is a reserve corps

Likely one independent tank brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XXX Corps (Sialkot)

two holding overstrength divisions

one tank, one infantry independent brigades
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IV Corps (Lahore)

two holding divisions and one division in reserve

one independent tank brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XXXI Corps (Bhawalpur)

two holding divisions

one independent anti-tank brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

II Corps (Multan)

one armored, one infantry division, also called Army Reserve Center

One tank and one anti-tank independent brigades
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V Corps (Karachi)

two holding divisions

One tank, one infantry independent brigades
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XII Corps (Quetta) also called Army reserve South

two infantry divisions

no independent brigades identified
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Separate note by Ravi Rikhye

At this time it is my assessment that the Pakistan Army's force and deployment structure is very well balanced; that Pakistan, in fact, enjoys the best situation in this respect since 1947. The lack of reserves has always bedeviled the Pakistan Army; but now there are ample reserves. For the first time, it has a genuine capacity for offense in Kashmir thanks to the availability of four corps (I, X, XI, XXX) and the equivalent of one (FCNA). Pakistan appears to have sufficient corps artillery and engineers to support its troops. Though XI Corps has only one division as one of its two divisions is away to FCNA, we have indications a new division is under raising and this may be for XI Corps. The raising of anti-tank brigades is an excellent and economical solution to India’s superiority in strike forces.

Pakistan feels it can now use its Army Reserve corps offensively. I disagree. Such use assumes a more favorable strategic situation than Pakistan should assume - GHQ is exaggerating the toll Kashmir is taking of the Indian Army. 1999 should prove that India has the capacity to very rapidly redeploy forces from CI to regular duties. Moreover, there is no evidence that Pakistan has added the support troops it needs to sustain offensives of the army reserve corps. India is well aware of the danger and has taken several steps to strengthen its defensive posture. These steps include extra brigades for divisions in threatened areas, and a massive increase in CI forces 2000-2005, allowing the army to be withdrawn from such duty.

A Short History: by Babur Mahmud

The Pakistan Amy has passed through three reorganizations after

its creation in 1947-1949:

· 1955 to 1961, the US military assistance period

· 1972 to 1975, after separation of East Pakistan

· 1985 to 1987, during the climax of the Afghan War



HQ I Corps was raised on 1st July 1957 at Abbottabad. Lt.Gen

Azam Khan, its GOC, became the first corps commander in the Pakistan Army, with Brig Aslam Khan as Chief of Staff. In November 1957, the corps shifted to Jehlum (20 Km from Mangla). In December 1961, it moved to Kharian. It operated from Gujranwala during the 1965 war, returning to Kharian in March 1966, and finally settled in Mangla in 1969.



HQ IV Corps The need for a second corps HQ was accepted from the start during the first Pakistan Army reorganization. In 1956 its raising was held in abeyance, pending availability of resources. HQ IV Corps was to be raised only ten years later, after the 1965 War and the retirement of General Musa as C-in-C. Lt.-General Abdul Hameed Khan was its first GOC. Raised in Lahore, the corps has continued there to this day. Its historical origins lie in the IV Corps of the old British-Indian 14th Army, which fought in Burma and Malaya under Field Marshal William Slim. In the Indian Army, this corps was reraised in 1961.



HQ II Corps was set up in mid 1971 in Multan. East Bengal was in revolt, and war with India seemed likely. Pakistan decided it needed a second army reserve – I Corps was the army reserve at this point. Lt.-General Tikka Khan was the first GOC, after returning from his post of Eastern Command from Dhaka.



HQ V Corps was raised at Karachi in 1975.



HQ X Corps was raised at Rawalpindi in 1974.



HQ XI Corps was raised at Peshawar in 1975.


HQ XII Corps was raised at Quetta in 1984-85. Lt.Gen K.K.Afridi was its first commander.



HQ XXX Corps was raised in 1986-87 from I Corps. While I Corps became a Reserve/Strike Corps, its area of the front was transferred to the new HQ. Raising was begun at Mangla; by mid-1987,it was fully functioning at Gujranwala. The first commander was Lt.Gen Imtiaz-ul-Allah Warriach.



HQ XXXI Corps was raised at about the same time as HQ XXX Corps and in similar fashion. II Corps Multan also became a Reserve/Strike Corps, and its area of the front was given to the new corps, which located atQ at Bahawalpur.



Note: HQ XXXI Corps appears to have shifted south to Pano Aqil. If so, a new corps HQ will be required to replace it in Multan Province.



Back to Main


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SyedA]

Pakistan 6 and 9 Divisions and 14 Brigade

On November 19, 2000, we had posted the following Current Questions:

1. When did Pakistan raise 6 (Border) Division and what happened to this formation?

2. When did Pakistan raise 9 Division?

3. What is the history behind Pakistan 14 (Parachute) Brigade?

On February 25, 2001, Mr. Mandeep Bajwa wrote to us with answers.

The proper title of the 6th was 6 (Bahawalpur) Division. It was raised from the Bahawalpur State Forces when they were integrated with the Pakistan Army. This divison was raised in January 1949. It had two brigades, 1 and 2 Bahawalpur Bdes. These were spread over Bahawalpur, Bahawalnagar and Mcleodganj. During 1955 the Pak Army was reorganized according to the US plan to equip 5 ½ Divisions. Being surplus to requirements, the 6 (Bahawalpur) Division was disbanded. The battalions of the Bahawalpur Regt were integrated with the Baloch Regiment and the supporting arms and services were likewise integrated with the corresponding Pak Army units. The number 6 was subsequently given to the Light Armored Divison raised from 100 (I) Armored Brigade in May 1965.

2. Before Partition the troops in NWFP were grouped as follows :-

Peshawar Area HQ Peshawar

Peshawar Bde

Nowshera Bde

Kohat Bde

Waziristan Area HQ Razmak

Razmak Bde

Bannu Bde

Wana Bde

Gardai Bde

In December 1947 all troops in Wazizristan were withdrawn under Operation Curzon and sent to constitute other formations. Peshawar Area was redesignated as Peshawar (Frontier) Area with the following Bdes under command :

Peshawar Bde redesignated 100 Bde

Kohat Bde redesignated 101 Bde

Bannu Bde redesignated 102 Bde

Nowshera Bde redsignated 103 Bde, later moved to Sialkot in Dec 1947. Now part of 10 Inf Div at Lahore.

On 1 Jan 1948 this division was again redesignated as 9 (Frontier) Division.

In the 1955 reorganization this Division, being surplus to requirements like 6 Division was disbanded. It’s KLP in the NWFP was taken over by 7 Infantry Division. The 1965 war revealed a serious shortage of inf in the Pakistan Army. Therefore 9 Infantry Div was re-raised with it’s HQ at Kohat. It subsequently formed part of the ill-fated Pakistan Eastern Command in Bangla Desh in 1971 and had to face the ignominy of surrendering to the victorious Indian Army.

14 Parachute Brigade was raised as an air landing (ie glider or plane borne as opposed to parachute) brigade as part of 2 Indian Airborne Division. The other two brigades were 50 Parachute and 77 (Chindits) Parachute Brigade, which now form part of the Indian Army. In 1947 it was undergoing training at Malir near Karachi for conversion to a para role. In January 1948 the Brigade was concentrated at Rahwali near Gujranwala with the folowing Pakistan Parachute Battalions:
3/1 Punjab (now 3 Punjab)

1/12 FFR (now 3 FFR)

3/16 Punjab (now 15 Punjab)

Their Brigade Commander was the dashing Nawabzada Sher Ali Khan of Pataudi (later Major Geneneral and CGS, Pakistan Army). Pakistan not possessing any airlift capacity the Brigade was converted to standard infantry. It now forms part of 8 Infantry Division. The only parachute units in the Pak Army now are the SSG and the President’s Body Guard.

[Malghani]

Syed,

Thank You Yaar,
Can we possibly get in touch with these experts again. Cuz I've a few questions.
First of all I wanna know where are they putting all the Mi-8/17s that are being inducted by the PA. Obviosly they are catering for the expanding corps which are swelling with extra brigades as mentioned by the first post bro. Syed put up.
But I just wanted to confirm if there is a squad or two of these in Quetta. I've seen them there. But question is are they there permanently?

Thanks again Syed.

[Malghani]

Pakistan Army Aviation Orbat

INVENTORY

18 = AH-1F Cobra
25 = SA330J Puma
33 = MI-17
10 = UH-1
2 = Y-12 II
28 = Bell 206 Jetranger
20 = SA316 Aloutte
15 = SA315B Lama
115 = Mushshak
30 = O-1E Bird Dog
2 = Commander 690
1 = Cessna 421
10 = Schweizer 300
12 = Bell 47


ORBAT

PA Base Lahore
--No. 2 Squad: UH-1, O-1E, MFI-17

PA Base Multan
--No. 3 Squad: O-1E, MFI-17
--No.21 Squad: Puma, UH-1H
--No.31 Cobra, Bell 206
--No.32 Cobra, Bell 206

PA Base Dhamial

--No.04 Mil-Mi-8 (Detachments at Rahwali and Gilgit)
--No.05 Alouette III
--No.06 UH-1H, AB-205A-1 Dhamial (Emergency Releif Cell Squadron)
--No.08 Lama Dhamial (Detachment at Skardu)
--No.13 O-1E, MFI-17 Dhamial
--No.25 Puma Dhamial


PA Base Rahwali
AAS OH-13, MFI-17 Rahwali (Army Aviation School)

PAF Academy Risalpur
--MFI-17 (For Army Students)
--VIP Cessna 421, Turbo Comndr


PA Base Shahra-e-Faisal, Karachi
--No.07 O-1E, MFI-17

PA Base Peshawar
--No.09 Alouette III, O-1E, MFI-17

[Boota]

The guy Ravi Rikhye who maintains the order of battle on Pakistan forces and goes around pretending to be some sort of a strategic analyst is actually a retired catholic shool teacher. He is just another delusionary Indian. As expected a lot of his information on the Pakistani orbat in made up and biased. A case in point reflecting this bias is that according to him Pakistani regiments are divided on ethnic lines i.e. Punjab regiment only has Punjabis and Baluch regiments only Baluchis and he further writes that every non-Punjab regiment has a company of Punjabis as the high command does not trust the non-Punjabis. This is complete BS, all Pakistani regiments are integrated. Infact the Pushtuns prefer the Punjab regiment as its regimental centre is closer to home in Mardan. Sind Regiment hardly has any Sindis in it. However, the paramilitary Frontier Corp is segregated at a company level on tribal as well as sectarian basis. A Pushtun tribe can have both Sunni and Shia members. On the other hand Indian regiments remain fully segregated on ethnic as well as caste basis. For example the Indian Sikh regiments are exclusivly for upper caste Jat sikhs while the Sikh Light Infantry is for Mazhabi Sikhs or lower caste sikhs.

[SyedA]

Actually most of his research is done by news papaer tid bits along with some of the BR memebers who seem to know a little more thna 99%. They discussed the whole PA Orbat and I have saved the thread. If you guys want I can email it to you. Its in HTML format so all you can do is just open it in a web browser.

As far as regiments along ethenic lines is a bullcrap, the only thing PA did was when they formed the Sindh regiment which is the newest among all, they moved some of the punjab regiment units in it since it was newly formed and there weren't so called "sindhi units' to move.

Anyway, the day Ravi Rakhiya andother understood PA orbat they will attack pakistan. Most of the deployment especially of strike corps is so secretive and changes so frequently that even some of the regular divisions of PA don't know about it.

[SyedA]

PA Corps Structure and Commanders (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000021)

[SyedA]

PA Corps and Commanders - II (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000026)

[RMS Azam]

Malghani,

Your figure of 210 F-7Ps for the PAF is way off the mark. I assume you have included 50 F-7PGs ordered by the PAF. These have not been received by the PAF. ORBAT only reflects the ground situation not future planned inductions. So you cannot include the F-7PGs until they are received. Secondly, the talk of 40 additional F-7PGs, over and above the 50 ordered so far, has not been confirmed. Those also cannot be taken into account. Thirdly, the 4 CN-235Ms ordered by the PAF also have not been received. They too cannot be placed on the PAF ORBAT.

Also, when referring to PAF squadrons, you should not use the "th" suffix. To say, for example, "11th" Squadron may imply that it is the eleventh squadron and there are ten squadrons preceding it. This may not be true. This is why in most air forces, including PAF, the "th" suffix is never employed. When referring to PAF squadrons always refer to them, for instance, as "No. 11 Squadron" or "11 Squadron". Additionally, PAF never uses the form "Squad." to denote a squadron. It uses either "Squadron" or the short, "Sqn."

[yasser]

Mr Azam
This is not Malghani's fault, his inventory was taken from the one Iposted, which in turn I had copied directly from Flight International World Airpower, the Orbat he gives for our squadrons is , I believe, correct, the inventory I gave from Flight includes systems in PAF service and those on order.

[yasser]

By the way Malghani bhai
Is it safe to asume that PAF bases Kamra and Chaklala are the only ones without dedicated Aloutte SAR choppers for teh following reasons

1) Chaklala SAR is covered by the nearby Pak Army base at Dhamail with its huge number of choppers!?

2) Kamra proximity to PAF Sarghoda means that the latters Alouttes also cover Kamra!?

[RMS Azam]

Originally posted by yasser
Mr Azam
This is not Malghani's fault, his inventory was taken from the one Iposted, which in turn I had copied directly from Flight International World Airpower, the Orbat he gives for our squadrons is , I believe, correct, the inventory I gave from Flight includes systems in PAF service and those on order.

If Flight International and World Airpower have listed 210 F-7Ps in the PAF ORBAT then they are wrong.

The PAF, on last count, had 143 F-7Ps. I know that at least 10 have been attrited. The figure may even have fallen below 140. Because my figure is from a couple of years ago. I know there have been no attrition replacements. PAF sought 10 F-7MPs in the late 1990s, when the Chinese drew their attention to the F-7PG. PAF then decided to cancel the induction of additional F-7MPs and decided to evaluate the F-7PG instead. The 50 F-7PGs ordered then were intended to replace the 40 F-6s left in the PAF inventory and 10 to replace the F-7MPs attrited in the last 10 years. Even if you include the 50 F-7PGs on order (highly unconventional to do so), you still do not get the 210 figure - you get 193. That is one squadron less.

Finally, where are the F-6s in the Flight International lineup? I was at PAF Samungli in August 2001 and the F-6s of No. 17 and No. 23 Squadrons were buzzing over Quetta city almost on a daily basis. These have not been retired as yet and are still awaiting F-7PG delivery.

[majithia]

Originally posted by Boota Masih
The guy Ravi Rikhye who maintains the order of battle on Pakistan forces and goes around pretending to be some sort of a strategic analyst is actually a retired catholic shool teacher. He is just another delusionary Indian. As expected a lot of his information on the Pakistani orbat in made up and biased. A case in point reflecting this bias is that according to him Pakistani regiments are divided on ethnic lines i.e. Punjab regiment only has Punjabis and Baluch regiments only Baluchis and he further writes that every non-Punjab regiment has a company of Punjabis as the high command does not trust the non-Punjabis. This is complete BS, all Pakistani regiments are integrated. Infact the Pushtuns prefer the Punjab regiment as its regimental centre is closer to home in Mardan. Sind Regiment hardly has any Sindis in it. However, the paramilitary Frontier Corp is segregated at a company level on tribal as well as sectarian basis. A Pushtun tribe can have both Sunni and Shia members. On the other hand Indian regiments remain fully segregated on ethnic as well as caste basis. For example the Indian Sikh regiments are exclusivly for upper caste Jat sikhs while the Sikh Light Infantry is for Mazhabi Sikhs or lower caste sikhs.

Isn't this Ravi Rikhye the same guy wrote "Pakistan Fizayya" and even travelled to Pakistan? A retired Catholic school Teacher turned Military Historian/Strategist/Analyst? This is what you call mid-life crisis:D :) :D :)I had the feeling this guy is a fake.

Next, we will hear George Fernandez flying Mig-29 in his "Kurta Pyjama" chewing "double patti Paan". :D :) :D.

majithia

[yasser]

R Riykhe is a BIG fraud!

Fiza'ya he wrote with some clown called Pushpinder Singh and they both claimed they were being unbiased while trying to defame Fiza'Ya and the book is riddled with inaccuracies.

I had a PAF Book club copy that I posted to Syed Bhai, my uncle (in the Air Force) scrawled some comments in it!

When they try and compare the losses of the PAF and teh IAF in the 1965 war these two clowns actually use the scribblings of an alleged and unamed IAF officer in one of John Frickers books they found!!!!!!!!

They actually use these mysterious scribblings to claim the IAF lost less planes then they acrually did! They claim this is "research"..............jokers!

[osman]

Didnt this clown not write the book "the forth war" ? I read it back in the late 80S or so, if i remember correctly he painted a senario where the baboons take out pakistan's nuclear facilities without any resistance, pure BS

[Rauf]

Why all F-16s at one base ?

T T F N

[Malghani]

Hi All,

Sorry I've been away for a while, ISP problems....... :(

Yeah I know its hard to believe an Indian would be unbiased about a few things. But the thing is that he is just plugging the numbers (on the map) that are out in the open.

I believe even if those are guesses they are damn good. Did you guys notice that all of our "force multiplier" units are not listed at all. By that I mean our Artillery Brigades, Air Defence Brigades and Engineering Brigades.

As for the F-7 Question, Thanks Yasser for defending me. I did put the exact quantity that your Orbat mentioned. Also there is a discrepency in Mirage Squadrons and numbers as well. We have more Mirage III, but oddly we have more (or equal) Mirage 5 Squadrons.

And Yeah Yasser, I believe you are correct in your assumption why Chaklala and Kamra don't have SAR squads.

M. Khurram,

I know for a fact that 1st Armoured Division is based in Multan. Its not a state secret (My uncle a Brigadier is based in Multan). But to be honest that is just the peacetime HQ. And offcourse the division has two Brigades, one of our contingency plans might have required a few units from this division to be stationed in Okara, who knows. Everybody knows that there are several different excercises taking place around the country after regular intervals. And units from different corps take part in these joint exercises moving from one place to another. So keeping track of it all is very hard for organizations like RAW and damn near impossible for individuals who are just curious.

The Pano Aqil Contonment was built to move our Bahawalpur Corps there. It makes more Strategic sense to have it at Pano Aqil than at Bahawalplur, which is only about 70km south east of Multan. Before this move, we had this huge vacuum in Sukkur-Jacobabad (Chicken's Neck) region. The move of our 31st Corps from Bahawalpur to Pano Aqil was to fill this vacuum. And that's why I hasitated to put the unit location other than the division which are said to be based at Bahawallpur and Bahawalnagar. Even that should be taken with some salt.


Rauf,

The F-16s are based in one base for logistical purposes in peace time. Once there is any tension in the region they deploy to forward airbases for war time operations. The two F-16 squads were deployed at Samungli, Sukkur and Shahbaz airbases during the nuclear tests, and no doubt were also part of the defense to our VPs (vulnerable points) in the north at the same time.

[GreenBeret]

8th independant Brigade is in Kharian and under 1 Corps HQ.There are no brigades of 5 Corps HQ in Quetta.The artillery division is under 5 Corps.

[ImranD]

Khurram friend some of the Sqd have moved to other bases like in Kamra. Kamra has
14 Sqd F-7 and 25 Sqd Mirages and now Rafiqi has 27 Sqd Mirages .

[Nisar Abbas]

Good effort Malghani, but there are a lot of mistake in your ORBAT, I dont mean to offend you but if you allow me, I would like to correct you, you have placed a lot of formations under a differant corps to which they do not belong, secondly you have given many wrong locations, here is the correct ORBAT of Pakistan Army. Please dont feel offended. I am not giving out brigades and their locs cause it will take a bit longer to write

I Corps - Mangla
6th Armoured Div - Kharian (Shahsawar)
17 Div - Kharian
37 Div - Gujranwala

II Corps - Multan
1st Armd Div - Multan (Mailed Fist)
14 Div - Okara

IV Corps (Lahore)
10 Div
11 Div (Battle Axe)
3 Armd bde - Chunian

V Corps - Karachi
16 Div - Pannu Aqil
18 div - Hyderabad (desert hawk)
Corps Reserve V Corps - Malir (this is a mechanised or light armd division with an unconvenional name)

X Corps - Rawalpindi (four oversized division)
FCNA - Gilgit (its a division under X Corps, and not an indep command, deplyed from Siachen to Nekrun)
12 Div - Murree (Chinar - deployed from Nekrun to Batal in Bagh distt, largest div of the army)
19 Div - Mangla (not deployed, pulled back by Gen Aslam Beg)
23 Div - Jhelum (Shining Star - deplyed from Batal to River Chenab near Gujrat, composed of 3 AK bde in Kotli, 4 Ak bde in Sabzkot, 66 bde in Padhar - Chamb and 333 bde in Jalalpur Jattan along with an armd regt)

XI Corp (Peshawar)
7 Div - Peshawar (Golden Arrow)
9 Div - Kohat (Mardan is wrong location qouted in some indian websites)

XII Corps - Quetta, along with both divisions
33 Div
41 Div (Shola Div)

XXX Corps - Gujranwala
8 Div - Sialkot
15 Div - Sialkot

XXXI Corps - Bahwalpur
35 Div - Bahawalpur
40 Div - Okara
Corps Reserve XXXI Corps - Bahwalpur (a mechanised/light armoured division commanded by a Maj Gen)