Military Aviation - News & Views II

[H Khan]

National Development Complex (NDC) Pakistan (Stand E120) is marketing a range of what it claims are ‘hi-tech, low-cost’ aerial targets and UAVs that can compete with western models such as the British-made Banshee and South African Seeker. With previous US-imposed sanctions on Pakistan lifted, NDC obviously sees the opportunity to develop an international market.

The long-range Vector surveillance UAV, making its debut in Dubai boasts a 200km (108nm) range, 50km short of that achieved by Denel’s Seeker II. But NDC Pakistan claims it can deliver its system to customers for around one-thirtieth of the cost of the Denel product.

Also on display is the Nishan MK-2 aerial target and NDC is promoting its range of cluster bombs, starfish naval ground mine and military batteries.

State-owned NDC says its goal is to deliver state-of-the-art military hardware at competitive prices. It believes there is a market among ‘friendly’ armed forces for the products it currently supplies to the Pakistan military.

"We’ve got a range of products that are of the same quality as western equivalents but a fraction of the cost," says assistant marketing manager Asad Kamal.


Asad Kamal with NDC Pakistan products on display

[H Khan]

Fairchild Dornier sees chance in AEW market





Despite several contenders for one of the smallest niche markets in aviation, Fairchild Dornier believes it can find a slot in the airborne early warning (AEW) field.

Tom Jobe, the company’s vice-president, government programmes, said at the show that its collaboration with Northrop Grumman on a proposed 728JET-based AEW system fitted would be less expensive than Boeing’s 767- and 737-based competitors and more flexible than Brazilian/Swedish combination of Embraer regional jet and Erieye radar.

He accepts that it is a small market - estimates are for 50-60 aircraft over the next five to eight years - but stresses that Fairchild Dornier has a valid competitor.

After a year of technical discussions with Northrop Grumman, the next step will be “to work the business side of the house” to match up the aircraft with potential customers.

Fairchild Dornier is also pushing special mission variants of its 328JET - particularly to the US Customs Service.

The service has an unusual problem; many of its aviation assets are aircraft seized after carrying narcotics. This has resulted in a heterogeneous fleet, which gives training problems, says Jobe.

“The service is looking to replace what it calls ‘interceptor’ aircraft as well as ‘low and slow’ aircraft for chasing boats. We understand that four systems integrators have submitted our 328JET for the contract and we are proposing it ourselves.”

A Customs aircraft is likely to have a variety of surveillance equipment including a search radar and forward-looking infra-red (Flir) seeker. If chosen, Fairchild Dornier would provide ‘green’ aircraft to an integrator rather than outfit them itself.

It is understood that orders for Customs could ultimately be in excess of 40 aircraft. However, says Jobe, “this is the second year in a row that we’ve had a Request for Information and we’re still awaiting a Request for Proposals.”

The problem is, as usual, one of money: “As far as we can see, there’s nothing in the budget this year.



Proposed 728JET AEW: Aiming for a niche in the market

[Abbas]

Fairchild & Northrop being U.S. entities I am not sure if this really is an option for PAF. On the other hand PAF has been working closely with FIAR on the Grifo radars, perhaps it might be an idea to enter into a joint venture with them to develop an AWACS for PAF.

NavBaby.

[fahadaz]

:o i think you are right. NO American product is an option for US.

[Usman Shabbir]

The old thread is here: http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=861

Please continue the discussion here.

[Mohammed Ali]

A special irony is being offered by one of the U.S. Air Force E-8C Joint-STARS flying over Afghanistan watching for tell-tale signs of fleeing Taliban and Al Qaeda forces. The aircraft, now USAF tail No. 94-0284, was built as a Boeing 707 for Qantas in 1966. After 11 years with the Australian airline, it became a leased aircraft serving with Pakistan International, Deta Mozambique, British Midlands and then, for six weeks in the spring of 1981, Ariana Afghan Airlines. In June 1994, the 707 was bought by Northrop Grumman and underwent its conversion to an airborne ground surveillance radar aircraft.

Aviation Week & Space Technology
January 28, 2002
SECTION: INDUSTRY OUTLOOK; Vol. 156, No. 4; Pg. 17

[H Khan]

.c Kyodo News Service


ISLAMABAD, March 25 (Kyodo) - Twenty F-7 (PG) aircraft supplied by China will be added to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in a ceremony at Samangli air base in Quetta, capital of the southern Pakistani province of Baluchistan, a PAF spokesman said Sunday.

He said the Chinese aircraft are part of a total of 40, agreed upon by the two sides last year, and would form a second line in Pakistan's air defense.

The aircraft are an improved version of Chinese F-7 aircraft and are equipped with the latest avionics and radar systems supplied by an Italian company.

AP-NY-03-24-02 1746EST

[zeeshan]

Pak fighter aircraft crashes
AFP
Islamabad, March 26

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Pakistan air force fighter aircraft crashed near the central city of Multan during a training mission on Monday, officials said.
The pilot of the aircraft, the type of which was not identified, ejected safely, they said.

Military sources in Multan said the crash occurred only five minutes after the plane took off from its base.

The pilot, flight lieutenant Naveed Ahmed, tried but failed to land safely after the plane developed a technical fault, an official said.

The plane crashed into deserted fields in a village some 16 km south of Multan, he added.

No loss of life or damage to property on the ground has been reported.

Officials here said an inquiry had been ordered to investigate the cause of the accident.

[SyedA]

High level Chinese delegation calls on President



ISLAMABAD, March 26 (APP)- A high-level delegation of the Chinese aviation industry currently in Pakistan on an official visit Tuesday called on President General Pervez Musharraf. The delegation led by Liu Gaozhou, President China Aviation
Industry included Wang Ang, Chairman, China Aviation Science &
Technology committee, was also accompanied by the Chief of Air
Staff, Air Chief Marshal, Mushaf Ali Mir and the Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan, Lu Shulin. During the course of the call, the President recalled the excellent bilateral and fraternal relations enjoyed by Pakistan and The Peoples Republic of China in all fields of endeavour. He said the recent foundation laying ceremony of the Gwadar port was living proof of Pak-China friendship and collaboration, which extends from the Karakoram Highway to Gwadar port in the Arabian Sea.

The President thanked the representatives of the Chinese
aviation industry for their continued material and technical
support to Pakistan in the recent past, including advancing
delivery of F7 PG aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force and cooperation in the Super 7 aircraft programme. The delegation thanked the President and Pakistan Air Force

for the hospitality being extended to them and the opportunity to
call on him. They expressed the hope that their visit would serve to further enhance the existing cooperation between both the
countries in the field of aviation.

[SyedA]

Induction of China planes into PAF today


By Our Staff Reporter

ISLAMABAD, March 26: The operational induction of three squadron of Chinese F7 PG fighter aircraft will take place in Quetta on Wednesday which will also have the operational retirement of F6 Chinese aircraft.

Balochistan Governor Justice (retd) Amirul Mulk will be the chief guest, while PAF Chief Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir and the chairman of Chinese Aviation Industry will be present on the occasion.

According to informed sources, China would provide a total of 57 F7 PG fighter aircraft by early 2003. So far 20 of them have already arrived in Pakistan while another 20 will reach here next month. These three squadrons also included six dual seaters trainer aircraft.

The sources said that Pakistan had been offered these F7 PG aircraft relatively on lower prices by China and as such each plane would cost about five million dollars.

The new Chinese aircraft had been described by the pilots as "mini F-16 aircraft" because of their manoeuvrability and better performance. Quetta has been chosen for operational induction of these aircraft in order to pay tribute to martyrs of the province and to give more emphasis on PAF's activities there.

The sources said that those 30 to 40 F6 Chinese aircraft which were being operationally retired, would continue to be used by the Pakistan Air Force in emergency situations.

[Sultan]

In relation to the proposed/ongoing defence cooperation between Pakistan and Romania, I wonder if the PA would be interested in this Romanian designed and built flight simulator for the Puma chopper.

Below is the link to a pic of the flight sim:


http://www.deltawing.go.ro/siar3301.jpg

Another pic but this time of the IAR 330 Puma SOCAT cockpit:

http://www.deltawing.go.ro/images/socat7.jpg

[Malik]

Sultan,

It great that Romina wants to invest in Joint Venture with Pakistan on Several different Projects according to Pakistani Newspagers. Hopefully in near future we will hear some more info about these projects.


===================================

Romania seeks to buy ex-RN Type 22s

The Romanian government decided on 1 March to start acquisition procedures for two ex-Royal Navy (RN) Type 22 Batch 2 frigates HMS Coventry...
March 01, 2002

http://jdw.janes.com/

[Malik]

I don't what happened to the Mirage200-5 deal with France?

I hope the deal goes through, I hope that US finally say no to those F16s so Pakistan can buy Mirage2000-5 MK2

[RMS Azam]

Originally posted by SyedA

Quetta has been chosen for operational induction of these aircraft in order to pay tribute to martyrs of the province and to give more emphasis on PAF's activities there.


Quetta has been chosen because it happens to house the Nos. 17 and 23 Sqns. equipped with the last of the PAF's F-6s which the PGs are intended to replace. It has nothing to do with the martyrs of the province or to highlight the PAF's activities there.

[nausherwan]

IAF to buy 126 Mirage 2000-5

Plagued by MiG-21 crashes that have claimed the lives of 100 pilots over the past five years, the IAF is going in for the latest and most expensive
aircraft in the Mirage range, reports Kajal Basu

New Delhi, March 27

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is in the running for 126 Mirage 2000-5 fighter aircraft, Dassault-Breguet's latest and most sophisticated model, to outfit seven topflight squadrons. The British defence weekly, Dassault Aviation, reported on Tuesday, March 26, that the seven squadrons would "comprise the backbone of India's proposed strategic nuclear command".

Jane's Defence Weekly confirmed the report: "Official sources in New Delhi said the IAF plans to acquire 126 Mirage 2000-5s to equip seven squadrons that will comprise the backbone of India's proposed strategic nuclear command," it said. "The IAF wants 36 Mirage 2000-5s to be delivered in completed form and the remainder to be assembled by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore."

The Mirage is not new to the IAF, which already has about 60 Mirage 2000 H and TH. But the Mirage 2000-5 is an upgraded unit to the order of a couple of generations, and is considered entirely fit for the enhanced nuclear attack role envisaged by the IAF as its frontline role in the coming decade.

When the Mirage 2000 was mobilised, it was a fresh-faced, sleek, delta-winged aircraft with highly advanced interceptor system and controls. Its secondary role is that of ground-attack, for which it carries laser-guided missiles, rockets and bombs. The two-seat version of the aircraft, the 2000N (Penetration), has a nuclear standoff capability.

The Mirage 2000-5 that India is plugging for is a multirole single-seater (or tandem-seater) fighter. Its avionics are considered superb in a world where avionics are reinvented every couple of years. According to a descriptive report, "…its new multiple target air-to-ground and air-to-air firing procedures [are] linked to the use of RDY radar and its new visualisation-and-control system". Usable in air-to-air mission role, the Mirage 2000-5 has technology in which glitches were ironed out from the previous Mirage 2000 versions (Mirage 2000 DA, Mirage 2000 E, Mirage 2000 D).

The Mirage 2000 S has the same architecture and performance data as the Mirage 2000 D, which is itself derived from the Mirage 2000 N stocked by the French Air Force, a two-seater air-to-ground attack aircraft. It is also built for high-speed map-of-the-earth flying. Its armament includes laser-guided weapons, low-drag coefficient bombs, and capability to lug cruise missiles.

The Mach 2.2 Mirage 2000-5's competitors are few and far between - its own cousin, the Mirage III/5, the superb Israeli Kfir, China's SU-27, and the Nordic Viggen. With its minimum 800 nautical miles (1,475 km) and maximum 1,800 nm (3,335 km) range (with drop tanks), the aircraft has strike capabilities that exceed any other aircraft in the possession of the IAF or its neighbouring nation compatriots.

It has been the aircraft of choice in the French Air Force since mid-1983; today, the FAF has 140 Mirage 2000s in seven squadrons. The other nations, apart from India and France, using the Mirage (sundry versions) are Egypt, France, Greece, Peru, Qatar, Taiwan, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE).

Orders for 110 Mirage 2000-5s have been placed by the air forces of France (37, with 20 delivered), Taiwan (60), Qatar (12) and Greece. Greece is scheduled to be supplied 15 Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 and upgrade 10 Mirage 2000s. The UAE has ordered 30 Mirage 2000-9, a customised version of the 2000-5. India has 18 Mirage 2000Ds.

The Mirage 2000-5 is state-of-the-art and is expected to remain in its current form for at least half a decade. Among its technologies are hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) control. It also incorporates the Thales VEH 3020 head-up display and five multifunction pilot-systems interface (APSI) displays. The combined head-up/head-level display provides data relating to flight control, navigation, target engagement and weapon firing. Sensor and system management data (SMD) is shown on two coloured lateral displays.

The Taiwanese Air Force (Republic of China Air Force), however, has reported serial crashes of the Mirage 2000-5, of which it has 60, since March 1998. The RCAF has, however, reported that the accidents are statistically normal and nothing to worry about.

The IAF is no stranger to lethal accidents: its mainstay, the MiG-21, doddering and haunted by a paucity of spares, has claimed the lives of 100 pilots over the past five years. It is to replace these flying coffins that the IAF is buying the vastly more expensive Mirage 2000-5.

[Saad Hasan]

Perhaps to bully France in not negotiating with us...this is very bizarre, whatever happened to IAF's prospect of going for Rafale?

[H Khan]

SANTIAGO, April 3 (AFP) - 19:14 GMT - Brazilian aviation giant Embraer and France's Dassault Aviation signed a cooperation agreement here Wednesday for the development of a new version of the Mirage 2000 fighter jet, just as Brazil's armed forces are mulling a modernization of their fleet.
The agreement, to which France's Snecma Moteurs and Thales Airborne Systems were also parties, seeks to develop an updated version of the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2, which Embraer has dubbed the Mirage 2000 BR.

Embraer Executive Vice President Romualdo Barros told reporters that the plane will have a wide variety of components. Chief among them are six beyond-visual-range missiles and RDY2 radar.



[i]It is very clear that Mirage 2000 has now taken the same course as F-16: Espicializing for every customer.

[H Khan]

Update Profile


Products and Services: SA 330 - Puma helicopters military version (Aerospatiale licence - France); A wide range of gliders and moto-gliders such as IS 28B2, IS 28M2, IS 29, IAR 35; Repairs/overhaul of helicopters, light aircraft, gliders and moto-gliders; Manufacture and repairs of a broad range of aeronautical products and miscellaneous. Main Customers: Romanian Air Forces; Airforces in United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, Sudan, Angola, etc; Romanian Training and Aerobatics School; Romanian Utility Aviation; Aerospatiale (Eurocopter) - France

Structures;Helicopters;Metal bonded structures;Metal fabrication;R & O;Repair & overhaul >see R & O;R & O - aircraft;R & O - helicopter;


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Romania


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[zeeshan]

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw020401_2_n.shtml

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw020318_1_n.shtml

[Maruf29]

Turkish Air Forces training UAE pilots on F16's
Islamic Republic News Agency(IRNA)

Posted Tuesday January 15, 2002 - 11:38:49 AM EST


London -- The Turkish Air Force has initiated a training program on F-16 multi-role fighters for pilots from the United Arab Emirates, the first such service offered by Turkey to another country.

UAE Air Force and Air Defence pilots have been receiving training at Turkish Airspace Industries' Akinci base in Ankara since mid- November in a program that is expected to last until early February, according to Jane's Defence Weekly.

The emirate, which has 80 F16 Block 60 Desert Falcons on order from the US scheduled for delivery 2004-08, was said to have paid Turkey an estimated Dlrs 30-40 million for the training.

Jane's also reported that Turkey had initialled a similar training agreement for the Royal Jordanian Air Force, which currently has 16 F16 A/Bs.

The Royal Air Force of Oman, which is interested in acquiring up to 12 F16s, was said to have also approached Turkey with regard to a training program.

[H Khan]

Since UAE AF has only 11 UAE nationals certified & rated to fly its strong force of 33 Mirage 2000 how will finds UAE nationals to get trained for F-16?????

[nasim]

Whatever happened to the IAF plans for the SU-30. They cant seem to figure out what avionics they want for it nor can they determine whether they are Su-27 trainers but they want to buy some 130 M2k-5. Why would anyone want to even think about such a massive new order when they have botched their last big order so bad. Having 18 some what finished Su-30's to show for so much money is not very efficient.

[yasser]

Well, looks like its the end of this saga!

According to this weeks Flight International (9th-15th April)
14 stored PAF F-16's are now being used by USN Agressor squadron while the USN are retiring F-18's from this role.
The other 14 aircraft (of 28 stored) are being purchased by the USAF as replacement F-16 tes aircraft.

Oh well, now looks like if we do get F-16's at least they will not be A/B's.........

[Sofian]

Does anyone know if Super 7 is supposed to have its first test flight this year? I heard that it was supposed to be sometime this June. We are running far behind in air defence compared to our advarsary. And we definitely need a genuine 4th generation fighter to compete with our adversary because those F-7PGs, F-7MGs, Mirage IIIs and 5s are no match at all for Mirage 2000s, Mig 29s and SU30MKIs. The F-7PGs and F-7MGs could take on Mig 21s and Jaguars but not Mirage 2000, SU30MKI and Mig 29s (remember IAF is suppose to be upgrading their Mig 29s and Mirage 200H). We desperately need something to counter the SU30MKI. Any comments?

[Aziz]

Sansarie, the S-7 is due for first flight in early/mid 2003.

As regards to your comments on the PAF's lack of a 4th generation fighter these have been well discussed in many previous threads - see the Mirage 2000 thread etc.

Aziz

[H Khan]

LONDON [MENL] -- Saudi Arabia is examining a new-generation French fighter-jet in what could be the biggest purchase of combat aircraft by the kingdom.

Western industry sources said Riyad has been discussing the sale of up to 130 Rafale fighters. The sources said the negotiations began last year but began to intensify after the Sept. 11 suicide attacks on New York and Washington, an attack attributed to Saudi nationals linked to Osama Bin Laden.

"We could see a deal consumated by the end of the year," a senior defense executive who is based in the Gulf said. "The Saudis seem serious."

The negotiations between Paris and Riyad have dismayed the United States. Washington has been the leading military supplier of Saudi Arabia and long pressed the kingdom to purchase the F-16.



Interesting NEWS piece indeed!

[zia ul haq]

Asalaamo-a-laikum.

The Yanks are stupid. The Saudis wanted to buy the F-16 as an F-5 replacement for most of the 1990s but the Israelis kept on whinging at the them not to.

The Saudis have done the best thing in looking elsewhere because we all know the Yanks are unreliable suppliers. I guess they feel they have been conned one time too many by the Yanks.

I am suprised they did not look at the EuroFighter Typhoon though. Perhaps the memory of the Lightning and the Tornado ADV are still too fresh for them to look at 'British' products.

If they pull this off it will be the first export success for the Rafale and would most likely lead to more export orders.

[omear]

ok i am dreaming here .. but what about a joint deal by saudia arabia and pakistan to lower the unit price and have liscenced assembly??????????

[Sultan]

If they pull this off it will be the first export success for the Rafale and would most likely lead to more export orders.

Excellent news... I suspect that Israel's brutal aggression against the Palestinians and all the talk about attacking Iraq, despite fierce Arab opposition, has helped steer the Saudis decision to look at the Rafael. This is probably a blessing in disguise for Dassault. The Saudis know that there are three groups of people who steer US foreign policy- Jewish Lobby, Energy industry and the military industrial complex. In order for the Saudis to retaliate, hitting back at the US military industrial complex is the least risky, for Saudi interests, and will certainly get the message across to Washington. No doubt if the Rafael wins exports orders to KSA, then the Bush admin. will definately be feeling the pressure.........

ok i am dreaming here .. but what about a joint deal by saudia arabia and pakistan to lower the unit price and have liscenced assembly??????????

This I like...............

[H Khan]

April 24, 2002;

Venezuela has purchased eight Brazilian-Italian AMX-T trainers, and it is known that China is pressing hard to sell its new line of fighter aircrafts and K-8 tainers to Brazil.


www.forecastinternational.com

[Sultan]

Just to add to what H Khan stated, it looks as if there may be a possible F16 sale to Brazil in a $990 million deal. The Brazilians have a requirement for 12 F16s if BAF selects the F16.

http://www.brecorder.com/story.php?css=brecord.css&story=0000464094&m=012&s=010

furthermore:

Avibras Aerospacial SA signed a deal on Jan. 14th with Rosoboronexport (Russian arms export) to co-produce the Sukhoi-35 in Brazil, if the BAF selects it as its new F-X fighter. (AFM MArch 2002).

[SyedA]

kanwa.com

<Kanwa News April 10, 2002> The first A50I that Israel's IAI originally planned to assemble for China today remains in Tel-Aviv. 60% percent of the internal installation of the aircraft had been completed when Israeli Cabinet formally decided to dismiss this transaction. Up till today, the aircraft still stays put on the ground, and no further alternation has been done since then or anything else. Sources from IAI disclosed the above information to Kanwa's correspondent.

In January this year, IAI and China signed an agreement concerning the sales of communication satellites with a value of US$180 millions. IAI disclosed that the deal had nothing to do with A50I. According to the articles of the contract, China will further purchase another eight satellites of the same model. China was clearly aware that Israel's failure to fulfill the contract was due to the pressure from the USA; therefore the cooperation between the two countries was not that seriously damaged as the outsiders estimated. Reliable sources from IAI claimed that China originally demanded for a compensation of US$1 billion. Though the two sides are still negotiating on the relevant issue, China and Israel have reached agreement on the basic framework of the solution. Israel will compensate China a total of US$ 350 million. The compensation process has not yet started, and will be paid by the Israel government instead of IAI. Before this, China paid Israel US$250 million to purchase the first A50I, and thus the A50I aircraft remained in Tel-Aviv is still the property of China. However, that aircraft will not be able to fly to China. Il76MD aircraft was what Israel purchased from Russia with China's money at a price of US$45 million. Sources from IAI say that after the compensation is completed by the Israel government, the A50I will become the property of the Israel government, who will then have the right to decide how to dispose of it. Earlier than this, the source from Indian military industry told Kanwa's correspondent at an interview that India and Israel had completed the first round talk concerning the purchase of three Phalcon AWACS from the latter, and the first three sets of radar systems will also be installed on Il76 aircrafts. Authoritative sources with Indian official background told Kanwa in Singapore that the negotiation would be completed in the coming six months. The areas that the two sides cannot agree on are the price of the aircraft. India plans to obtain the first A50I by 2004.

Would it be possible then for Israel to deliver A50I that was originally intended for China to India? Sources from IAI first stressed that they would not like to hurt the feeling of the Chinese or to further lose a future market with great potential. Meanwhile, on the issue of A50I, IAI did not experience any direct economic loss. And after the compensation is completed, it will be the property of the Israel government. Secondly, due to the changes of the equipments inside the aircraft, it is impossible for India to directly purchase this A50I at a low price. Thus it is still a problem for Israel goverment how to deal with the the first A50I. Perhaps Israel can look for a client that will not irritate the Chinese. "It will remain in the Tel-Aviv for a long time," the source said. IAI confirms that it will not transport the radar system of the aircraft to China in whatever ways. <Kanwa News>

[dheeraj]

http://headlines.sify.com/787news4.html

Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi has won the bid to develop the fifth generation multi-role superfighter for the Indian and Russian air forces.

Sukhoi bagged the tender by beating its two key rivals _ MiG and Yakovlev corporations.

Russian Minister of Industry, Science and Technology Ilya Klebanov, Friday announced that the Yakovlev Design Bureau and MiG Corporation would also take part in the project, Russian Interfax news agency has reported.

The new aircraft is expected to take off in 2006 and is likely to be operational from 2008.

Russia and India have already agreed to jointly design, develop and build the fifth generation superfighter.

Defence Minister George Fernandes, during his recent visit to Moscow, discussed the joint project with Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov, who reiterated Moscow's pledge to design and build the aircraft in collaboration with India.

Kasyanov also promised to speed up the preparatory work on the development of the new generation fighter jet that would compete with the US Joint Strike Fighter, co-funded by several countries.

------------------
It looks like that the 5th generation fighter will be a derivative of the twin engined Su47 (S-37 Berket)

[SyedA]

well good for you guys :rolleyes:

[Saleem Hatoum]

Yes, they should keep buying 5-6-7 generation fighters and only talk about AJTs???


SAD

[SyedA]

Afghan pilot dies in MiG-21 crash near Kabul: KABUL, April 27: The pilot of an Afghan Air Force MiG-21 jet died today when his parachute failed to open and his plane crashed on the outskirts of Kabul, an Afghan defence ministry spokesman said. The pilot was practising for a parade to be held on Sunday as part of celebrations to mark the 10th anniversary of the end of communist rule. The plane got into difficulty over Pul-i-Charkhi to the east of the city. "I saw an explosion and then dust and smoke," witness Ajab Gul told Reuters.

[nasim]

So the indians are going to buy Advanced Jet trainers, build over 100 Su-30's, purchase over 100 Mirage 2000-5, develop, test and produce the LCA and jointly develop some new "super fighter" with the russians and at the same time upgrading the Mig-21-93 and finding some upgrade for the Mig27.

Interesting indeed.

[Malik]

MOSCOW [MENL] -- Jordan has expressed interest in the purchase of Ukrainian air defense systems.

The Moscow-based Interfax news agency said Jordan and the Ukraine discussed the issue during the visit last month of Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma. The agency said a Ukrainian delegation presented a range of defense systems and weaponry to Jordanian military chiefs.

Kuchma has been touring the Middle East in a delegation that includes his defense minister. So far, the Ukrainian president has visited Lebanon and Syria.

Arab diplomatic sources said Ukraine has been promoting its surface-to-air missiles and radar. This includes the Kolchuga radar believed to have been supplied to Iraq.

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2002/may/05_10_3.html

======================================


Does anyone know how good Ukrainian Air Defense System is ...and why Pakistan hasn't shown any interest in it?

We need more SAM System & Kolchuga Radar.

[SyedA]

PAF chief arrives in Washington


By Our Staff Correspondent

WASHINGTON, May 12: Chief of Air Staff, Air Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir, arrived here on Saturday for an official visit at the invitation of his US counterpart, Gen John Jumper.

Air Marshal Mir's visit should be seen in the context of the recently re-established military-to-military contacts between Pakistan and the US. Gen Jumper had visited Pakistan recently.

The Pakistani air chief will call on the Secretary for the Air Force, Dr James Roche, at the Pentagon on Monday, and on Tuesday will meet Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen Richard Myers before visiting some US air force bases.

Pakistan's wish to buy some F-16s has not met with a favourable response from the Bush administration, but delivery of spare-parts for the PAF's existing aircraft, held up because of sanctions, is believed to be proceeding.

Air Marshal Mir will be in the United States for about a week.

[MohammedA]

MINISTER SAYS US TO ASSIST PAKISTAN IN COMBATING TERRORISM, NARCOTICS.


Text of report by Radio Pakistan on 13 May

The interior minister, Mr Moinuddin Haider, has said the United States is to assist Pakistan in efforts to combat terrorism, monitor the Western border, and checking narcotics and smuggling. He was talking to newsmen at the Islamabad airport this morning on his return from a visit to the United States. He said the United States will provide a grant of 73m dollars to Pakistan for this purpose. The interior minister said 44m dollars will be spent on strengthening of security on Pakistan-Afghan border to check illegal crossings. For this purpose, paramilitary, scouts, and provincial levies will be trained and equipped. Twenty-nine million dollars will be spent on the establishment of an air wing for surveillance of Western border to check infiltration of terrorists, narcotics, and smuggling.

Source: Radio Pakistan, Islamabad, in English 0700 gmt 13 May 02.
BBC Worldwide Monitoring/ (c) BBC 2002.

[H Khan]

By MUNIR AHMED
.c The Associated Press

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - An unmanned U.S. spy plane returning from a mission crashed Saturday near a remote village in southwestern Pakistan, not far from a military base being used by U.S. forces, U.S. and Pakistani officials said.

The Predator's wreckage was found near Karim Bakhsh, about 15 miles northeast of Jacobabad, and was being examined by U.S. soldiers, said local police official Mohammed Mustafa.

``The plane, which was on a routine surveillance mission, lost contact with the Jacobabad air base at 3:30 a.m.,'' said Mustafa.

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Michael Humm said the plane was returning from a mission in support of Operation Enduring Freedom when it crashed and that enemy fire was not involved.

The wreckage has been recovered and the cause of the crash is under investigation, he said.

At least five unmanned U.S. Predator spy planes have crashed since the U.S.-led anti-terror campaign was launched in neighboring Afghanistan on Oct. 7, including two spy planes in just one week in January.

Predator spy planes are often seen in the skies over Jacobabad, said resident Mohammed Azim Khoso. U.S. forces have been stationed there since September, when Pakistan threw its support behind the coalition's war on terror in Afghanistan.

``Usually these planes fly in the area during the night,'' Khoso said.

Residents have protested the presence of U.S. forces at the military base on the edge of Jacobabad, about 180 miles east of the Afghan border. Pakistan says the forces stationed there are not combat soldiers, but rather logistical support troops for coalition forces in Afghanistan.


05/18/02 10:28 EDT

[Shoaib]

Assalamu aleikum

Hmm .. if it crashes in Pakistan, shouldnt pakistani military go find it, and after recovering the plane decide whether they will hand it over to the US?

W'salam

[Usman Shabbir]

US plane crashes near Jacobabad

By Mukesh Ropeta

JACOBABAD: An unmanned US spy plane crashed some 30 km from Jacobabad on Saturday morning, apparently, due to technical fault. The aircraft was returning from Afghanistan.

There were no casualties as the accident occurred at 4 am at a farmland in village Bheram Khan Khoso in the jurisdiction of Dilmurad Khoso Police Station of Taluka Thul. Taluka Police Officer Subhani Khuwaro confirmed the incident and said that the plane crashed due to technical fault.

Platoons of Pakistani and American security personnel reached the scene by helicopters and cordoned off the area for about three hours. The security personnel took the wreckage to the Shahbaz Airbase in Jacobabad for investigation.

Agencies adds: Residents of the area said they came rushing out of their homes after hearing the pre-dawn accident. The white-coloured plane, carrying VAU-546 markings, fell in the same area where another US spy aircraft crashed about four months ago, witness Shan Barohi told AFP.

Sources said the plane, which is fitted with several cameras, flies at an altitude of 10,000 to 15,000 feet. According to the US Central Command in Tampa, the American headquarters for the war in Afghanistan, The Predator went down on Friday and was later recovered. The Predator crash was under investigation but the military said it was not brought down by enemy fire.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

[AkramIshaqKhan]

Why are we allowing Spy planes to fly over our territory?
JK.
Not very smart.

[MohammedA]

Aren't the USAF flight corridors/plans into Pakistan limited by the PAF?

[H Khan]

Originally posted by MohammedA
Aren't the USAF flight corridors/plans into Pakistan limited by the PAF?


Yes, they USAF flies under a very strick rules of flight plan. All flights of manned or unmanned aircrafts have to put flight plans in advance to get clearance, which usually is given without any glitch.

What have been told that all foreign flights to Afghanistan fly through three prescribed flight corridors so far no violations have occured.

[Usman Shabbir]

Guys the new July 2002 issue of AFM has interview of the Pakistan Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal Ali Mir, about the current situation in the country.

[Usman Shabbir]

Sultan have you received your copy of the new AFM yet? Or do I have to wait for one more week to receive my own copy to read the interview?:)

[Akbar]

Pakistani F-16 Jets Going to U.S. Navy, USAF
Charles R. Smith
Thursday, June 13, 2002
Fighters Find New Top Gun Home After 10 Years

The U.S. Navy "Top Gun" school, long neglected and nearly disbanded during the Clinton years, is finally getting some new life. The Naval Air Station at Fallon, Nev., is slated to obtain 14 of 28 F-16 Lockheed-Martin Fighting Falcons originally sold to Pakistan.

The 1992 sale of the 28 Falcons to Pakistan was canceled during the last days of the Bush Sr. administration because Islamabad had openly purchased nuclear weapons technology from China. The sudden appearance of Chinese nuclear-tipped M-11 ballistic missiles brought a swift embargo of U.S. arms sales on Pakistan, including the previously ordered F-16 Falcons.

The 28 Falcons were mothballed, sitting for nearly a decade in the U.S. Air Force Aerospace Maintenance Regeneration Center at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. The Block 15 A and B models are upgraded with advanced Head's Up Displays (HUDs) avionics and improved engines intended for foreign military sales.

In June 2002, the Bush administration determined that 14 of the 28 Falcon jet fighters should be turned over to the Navy's Top Gun school and serve as part of the adversary squadron. The F-16s are slated to replace aging F-18 and F-5 jets at the Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center.

All 28 of the F-16 jets have had their Pakistani star and crescent moon insignia painted out and engines reconditioned. The remaining 14 F-16 Falcons are slated to be transferred to Edwards Air Force Base to serve with the 412th Test Wing as chase planes. The planned transfer of the ex-Pakistani F-16s to the U.S.A.F. has run into opposition from a variety of sources.

Marine Corps Left Out

One suggestion that has topped the list for the ex-Pakistani F-16s is to send the Falcons to the U.S. Marine Corps aggressor squadron VMFT-401 in Yuma. VMFT-401 is currently equipped with Vietnam-era vintage F-5 fighter jets. The aging U.S.M.C. aircraft are described as "about to become pumpkins."

The Pakistani F-16 jets have had a checkered past and have frequently been used as a political softball. New Zealand was the last country to make a bid for the mothballed Falcons but changes in its government canceled the deal. Prior to the possible New Zealand sale, the Clinton administration offered the mothballed Falcons to Indonesian dictator Suharto. In April 1994, Indonesia replied to Clinton's offer and agreed to pay cash to buy 11 of the original order of 28 Pakistani F-16s, with delivery by the end of 1994.

Indonesian F-16 Deal

At the November 1994 APEC conference, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown convinced Indonesia that it could get a great deal on the remaining 17 F-16 jet fighters. Thus, Indonesia committed itself to purchase the entire lot of 28 jets, with delivery scheduled for 1997.

Indonesia was then tightly controlled by the brutal dictatorship of President Suharto and his family. Because of the documented human rights abuses of the Suharto regime, the Clinton administration had openly declared a policy barring small arms and crowd control equipment.

Yet, according to the same Clinton administration, there was no law banning the sale of the jet fighters to Indonesia.

"The sale to Indonesia would not conflict with U.S. policies on human rights because it is unlikely that Indonesia would be able to use the aircraft to suppress legitimate dissent, as it might with small arms," noted the official Clinton State Department policy on Indonesia.

Human rights abuses were not the only problem inside Indonesia. In August 1996, riots erupted in Jakarta when police raided the headquarters of the Indonesian Democratic Party, the main pro-democracy opposition. At least five people died and scores of buildings and vehicles were set on fire.

As a result of the unrest, the Clinton administration decided to put the F-16 sale on hold until later in the year, but then reversed itself, giving the green light for Suharto to acquire the F-16s.

"A regionally respected [Indonesian] armed forces with credible defense capabilities that trains and operates in a non-threatening manner is an important contributor to the regional stability," noted the official Clinton State Department announcement on the renewed sale.

F-16 Sale Linked to Illegal Clinton Donations

By late 1996, the F-16 sale seemed relatively certain. However, this all changed after the 1996 U.S. elections when allegations arose concerning illegal campaign contributions by Indonesian nationals to the Democratic Party.

Congress began looking at the relationship between the sale of these planes and the campaign contributions. Both Democrat and Republican Senate leaders called upon the Clinton administration to delay the sale until after such an investigation could be completed.

Yet President Clinton continued to support the sale, which was to be completed in the latter part of 1997. Congressional criticism strengthened as the brutal Suharto regime continued to crack down on all opposition.

Finally, the F-16 sale was canceled by Indonesia after political questions were raised in the U.S. Senate on Suharto's close financial relationship with Clinton, John Huang and Webster Hubbell. In a letter sent to President Clinton, Indonesian officials cited the "wholly unjustified criticisms in the United States Congress against Indonesia."

In apparent retaliation to the congressional inquiries, Indonesian dictator Suharto renewed contacts with Moscow and cut a low-cost deal with Russia for 30 Sukhoi SU-27 jet fighters. The Russian fighter deal eventually failed due to Suharto's overthrow and final Indonesian economic collapse.

Pakistan Still Wants Jets

In November 2001, the Pakistani F-16 deal came back to haunt the new Bush administration. The president of Pakistan, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, made the F-16 transfer a major political issue with Washington as part of the new war against terrorism.

Musharraf said transferring the fighters would be an important symbolic gesture of American gratitude for his nation's strong support in the war in Afghanistan.

"I did take up this case, frankly, not because that much of it was significant from a defense point of view. It has its significance, certainly, but not as much as I should have highlighted it. It's more for public perceptions in Pakistan," stated Gen. Musharraf.

In November 2001, President Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell discussed the matter with Gen. Musharraf in meetings in New York, and then decided against making the fighters a part of renewed ties with Pakistan.

"They would like to have the planes, but at the moment we are restarting our military-to-military relationship in a more serious way, and the planes are not an issue that we expect to be discussing in the very near future," stated Secretary Powell.

Despite the rejection, Gen. Musharraf said Pakistan still wants the planes as a visible sign that the United States is restoring Pakistan to the status of a genuine ally. Having his public request turned down flat was an embarrassing setback that Musharraf said would be "received negatively" in Pakistan.

The Bush administration, however, denied the transfer because of the tense situation between Pakistan and India. According to Bush officials, transferring the F-16s could upset that delicate balance, especially because the Falcons are capable of dropping nuclear weapons.

"Any transfer of advanced weapons would get everyone all riled up," a State Department official said.

[Usman Shabbir]

Well guys this is what I call humor. In the FlyPast issue of July 2002 a series of articles have been carried to celebrate Avro Vulcan's 50th anniversary. Some of the articles are written by Jack Talliss a nav plotter on the Vulcan and one "Over the AirWaves" by Peter J West who presents a light-hearted recollection of Vulcan chatter in world and here is a piece from that concerning Pakistan.

.... In September 1964 we were en route to the Far East, where Vulcans were to become involved in the now long forgotten war with Indonesia. A Vickers Valiant tanker was accompanying a flight of Gloster accompanying a flight of Gloster Javelin fighters to Singapore and was itself due to refuel and night-stop at Karachi.
The Air Electronics Officer in the tanker, Flt Lt Ken Finlay, was an old friend of mine who came from the Hebrides, the Scottish Islands. He prided himself on his mastery of accents and when he called up Karachi Air Traffic he put on his best Peter Sellers-style Asian voice:

Valiant: "Karachi, Karachi this is 'Rafjet Bravo Oscar Papa', requesting your latest veather and wisibility"!

Karachi Controller (in his Old Etonian English): "Rafjet Bravo Oscar Papa, this is Karachi. Our weather is fine, visibility 25 nautical miles and when you land you'd better be a Pakistani!"

[Behjat]

salaam,

Pakistan should lead the US on to believe we're interested in the F16's and then when they sanction the sale, go for the M2K's.

This will send the US a message. Yes, our military purchases from the US even if they are to become viable again, won't be significant in terms of US exports to the world. But the message would be strong and resolute. That we're simply interested in hi-tech stuff that has a strong posterity of spare parts supplies. This coupled with Saudi's recent announcement of Rafales, would gather in Washington that their foreign policies aren't necessarily privy to true sentiments emerging from the Muslims world.

[MohammedA]

Dawn.com

Delivery of US choppers delayed


By Our Staff Reporter

ISLAMABAD, June 19: The delivery of five armed helicopters and three fixed wings planes by the United States for the surveillance of Pakistan's western borders has been delayed till next month, an official source said.

These planes were supposed to reach here by middle of June but because of certain unknown reasons the delivery of the planes and helicopters has been delayed.

The US authorities have indicated that the much needed equipment to check illegal movements across Pakistan's western borders would now reach here by mid of July, the source said.

The United States, whose forces are directly involved in tracking down remnants of Al Qaeda and Taliban along Pakistan's western borders, had promised to provide the equipment earlier this year.

The agreement, involving a total amount of $73 million, was signed in Washington during a visit of Interior Minister Moinuddin Haider.

Meanwhile, delivery of other equipment, including 150 motorcycles, four-wheel-drive vehicles and other communication equipment had begun, the source said. International tenders for procurement of four-wheel-drive vehicles had already been floated and the orders for the purchase of 150 motorcycles had been placed, the source said.

Frontier Constabulary of NWFP and Balochistan have been directed to prepare reports for setting up checkpoints on the border. Under the programme several border checkpoints with an estimated cost of one million dollars each, would be established all along the 2500-kilometre-long border with Afghanistan

[yasser]

Interesting to note that it mentions 5 "armed helicopters" surely this rules out Blackhawks!

[MohammedA]

RUSSIA DELIVERS FOUR CIVILIAN TRANSPORT HELICOPTERS TO PAKISTAN.


Text of report in English by Russian news agency ITAR-TASS

Moscow, 20 June: Russia has delivered four civil transport helicopters Mi-171, made by the Ulan-Ude aircraft manufacturing plant (UAMP), to Pakistan for the needs of the Pakistani government, an official at the UAMP representative office here told ITAR-TASS on Thursday [20 June].

This batch of helicopters was supplied as a standard civilian helicopter equipment set under an overall contract for eight helicopters which can be used in transportation, search-and-rescue and passenger transportation options. The UAMP official has pointed out that "there is nothing military about these helicopters".

The Mi-171 versatile helicopters [are] the UAMP's staple export commodity. They successfully operate in many regions of the world, including African, Latin American and Asian countries.

Expert opinion is that a more apt cost-effectiveness balance as compared with Western analogues in the class of medium helicopters is conducive to successful promotion of the Mi-171 to the external market.

Source: ITAR-TASS news agency, Moscow, in English 1038 gmt 20 Jun 02.
BBC Worldwide Monitoring/ (c) BBC 2002.

[MohammedA]

RUSSIA SELLS EIGHT MI-171 TRANSPORT HELICOPTERS TO PAKISTAN.


Moscow, June 20 (PTI) Russia's major aircraft plant Ulan-Ude has shipped the first batch of four Mi-171 transport helicopters to Pakistan and four choppers will be airlifted by the end of the week.
Though the contract with Islamabad was signed "much before" the clearance for the actual supplies was revived only recently after Pakistan at the highest level gave written obligations for "civilian use" and not to modify it for military purposes, the Government-run RIA-Novosti agency reported.
The Mi-171 helicopters are a modernised version of Mi-17 fitted with nightflying avionics, the only chopper in the world capable of airlifting troops and supplies in the high altitude of Siachin. PTI VS VIN VR SSJ KSM PTI PTI NNN.

(c) 2002 OANA-Press Trust of India. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.oananews.com.

[MohammedA]

MANUFACTURING PRESS DIGEST, RUSSIA-CIS - AVIATION INDUSTRY, JUNE 25, 2002.


VEDOMOSTI, June 25
- According to the newspaper, Russia has supplied four Mi-171 transport helicopters to Pakistan and plans to deliver another four helicopters before the end of June. Russia has to supply a total of 12 helicopters worth $50 million to Pakistan under the terms of a contract.

[MohammedA]

PAKISTAN CONSIDERS UKRAINE AS A PROMISING PARTNER.


Kyiv, June 26 (Interfax-Ukraine) - Pakistan considers Ukraine as a promising partner for cooperation in the field of military technologies. Speaking in interview with Interfax-Ukraine, Zakir Jaffer, head of the Ahmed Jaffer & Company Ltd. specializing, among other things, on the supply of military products for the Pakistani army, confirmed his country's interest in a broadening of partnership with Ukraine in this area.
I believe that the current relations are based on the general understanding that cooperation in this area can broaden through the development of a joint manufacture, he emphasized. Having recalled the successful supply of Ukrainian T-80UD tanks to Pakistan, Jaffer noted that these issues need enlargement, including in the frames of considering prospects for organization of local production. At the same time he added that today Pakistan has sufficient resources, and the need in modernizing its T-72, T-69, as well as the outdated American tanks. On top of that the Pakistani expert pointed out the prospects for Ukraine's participation in the project for the creation of Al-Khalid basic tank for the Pakistani army. He also mentioned the successful operation of Ukrainian KrAZ trucks in Pakistan, saying now his country has a stake in renovating the army's fleet of high-duty vehicles. It is also possible to talk about cooperation prospects in the aviation sector, Jaffer said. Saying that Pakistan is planning to update its aircraft, the expert noted US F-16 could be replaced with Russian Su-27. Besides, Pakistan needs transport helicopters for the carriage of army servicemen, and will conclude a contract for the delivery of 17 airliners soon, he said.
IC 14:32:52 EET-2.
(c) Copyright 2002 Interfax Information Services, B.V. The leading provider of political, business and financial information from Europe and Asia with special emphasis on emerging markets.
London: +44-171-581-5550; Moscow: +7-095-251-4684; http://www.interfax.com.

[MohammedA]

PAKISTAN PLANS TO BUY UKRAINE'S SU-27 FIGHTERS, MILITARY TRANSPORT CHOPPERS.


Excerpt from report in English by Russian news agency Interfax-AVN web site

Kiev, 26 June: Pakistan considers Ukraine a promising partner for supplying military equipment. Zakir Jaffer, head of Ahmed Jaffer and Company Ltd., a company that specializes in supplying the Pakistani army with weapons, confirmed Pakistan's commitment to expanding and exploring new options for cooperation with Ukraine.

"I believe that existing contacts are based on the two sides' understanding of the need to expand cooperation via joint production," he told Interfax-Ukraine...

He said there were plans to replace F-16 fighters of the US make by US or Russian aircraft, for instance, the Russian Su-27 Flanker fighter.

In addition, Pakistan is in need of transport helicopters for airlifting military contingents and is planning to sign a contract on the supplies of 17 aircraft in the near future, Jaffer said.

According to data available to Interfax-Ukraine, Pakistan has been among Ukraine's major partners on the global arms market for the past few years. The volume of orders executed by Ukrainian experts for the Pakistani party totalled some 800m dollars from 1996 to 2000. Ukraine shipped 320 T-80UD tanks to Pakistan in the framework of a 650-million-dollar contract signed in 1996.

Source: Interfax-AVN military news agency web site, Moscow, in English 1247 gmt 26 Jun 02.
BBC Worldwide Monitoring/ (c) BBC 2002.

[Rauf]

Interesting, PAF may buy SU-27, hummmmmmm. Didn't Air Chief had been quoted saying SU-27 are not for PAF ?. If the above statement that SU-27 are not for PAF are indeed Aie Chief's words, then I persoanally think it time for Air Chief to go. He has been reported one too many times quoting conflicting information, this is not job of Air Chief, that is left out for polititions to do. Not once has PAF/Military has come out to contradict his quoted news reports. Lets not make this a case of 'Grapes are sour.'

PAF has been very interested in SU-27, not as much as F-16, however ruskies have been reluctent to sell because of indian objections. Ukranian SU-27s could easly be kept in service with spare parts from China. Avioncs and cockpit would have to be redone, hate the ruskie layout and dials.

T T F N

[Usman Shabbir]

Interesting, PAF may buy SU-27, hummmmmmm. Didn't Air Chief had been quoted saying SU-27 are not for PAF ?. If the above statement that SU-27 are not for PAF are indeed Aie Chief's words, then I persoanally think it time for Air Chief to go. He has been reported one too many times quoting conflicting information, this is not job of Air Chief, that is left out for polititions to do. Not once has PAF/Military has come out to contradict his quoted news reports. Lets not make this a case of 'Grapes are sour.'

In the news report 'Zakir Jaffer, head of Ahmed Jaffer and Company Ltd.' is talking about SU-27s for PAF not a government official and don't expect a reply from PAF, they rightfully don't have time to respond to every report published in the press quoting civilans and if you still want to know the PAF's view on SU-27 saga then buy the PAF history book, it's mentioned there in some what detail.

[Rauf]

Originally posted by Usman Shabbir


In the news report 'Zakir Jaffer, head of Ahmed Jaffer and Company Ltd.' is talking about SU-27s for PAF not a government official and don't expect a reply from PAF, they rightfully don't have time to respond to every report published in the press quoting civilans and if you still want to know the PAF's view on SU-27 saga then buy the PAF history book, it's mentioned there in some what detail.

A very kind reply to my post Usman, quite frankly I do not have time to read the book :). But thank you for your refence. As a civilian I do have the right to ask question, that is what we do in USA, yes military answer to Public, perhaps not in pakistan where politicans are curropt, but not every mohammad/butta/khan is curropt, and they do have the right to ask. Not to ask is like we say in USA, if you dont vote, you have no right to b****.

T T F N.

[Usman Shabbir]

A very kind reply to my post Usman, quite frankly I do not have time to read the book .

But yet you have the time to ask the questions? I refered you the book because it gives you an overview of the entire PAF effort to acquire the new generation fighter aircraft including the SU-27. If you still want to ask questions and want PAF to reply them, then you can always write to PAF's DPR. (But that's going to take more time then just reading the book).

[Rauf]

Originally posted by Usman Shabbir


But yet you have the time to ask the questions? I refered you the book because it gives you an overview of the entire PAF effort to acquire the new generation fighter aircraft including the SU-27. If you still want to ask questions and want PAF to reply them, then you can always write to PAF's DPR. (But that's going to take more time then just reading the book).

Dear Usman, I live in middle of no where, I am barely working so hard for me to cough up the mullaaaa $$$ for the book atm, will you be kind enough to loan me yours, if not ignore my question(s) :), else respect the freedom of press. You may want to read up on 'defamation' and how it is applied to people who hold positions at high levels :).

T T F N

[Usman Shabbir]

First you didn't had the time to read the book and now you want a copy:) And what about 'freedom of press' and 'defamation', when did that came into discussion.

[MohammedA]

Dawn.com

Technician dies, PAF man hurt in airbase blast


By Our Correspondent

SUKKUR, July 1: A technician was killed and a PAF employee was seriously injured in a powerful explosion at the Shahbaz Airbase in Jacobabad on Monday. Initial reports said either a gas cylinder or tyre tube of an aircraft had burst which caused the explosion.

The PAF employee, Mazhar Ali, and a unit technician, Abdul Khaliq, were rushed to the local civil hospital in precarious condition following the blast at about 6.30pm. Mr Khaliq succumbed to his injuries later.

The DPO of Jacobabad told Dawn that the cause of the blast could not be established immediately. Airport sources, however, indicated that air was being filled into an aircraft's tyre at the time the explosion.

A PAF employee revealed on condition of anonymity that the blast was caused by a gas cylinder.

Security around the airport had been tightened and newsmen were not allowed access to the injured PAF employee at civil hospital till late in the night.

[Rauf]

Originally posted by Usman Shabbir
First you didn't had the time to read the book and now you want a copy:) And what about 'freedom of press' and 'defamation', when did that came into discussion.

I am pretty sure I could make time to read a page or two a day, time permitted. guess a 200pg book will take any whare from 100 to 200 days.

T T F N

[MohammedA]

FRENCH JETS PATROLLED - INDO-PAK. COASTLINE'.


By Vaiju Naravane.
PARIS For ten days at the height of the military standoff between India and Pakistan, French aero-naval forces created a buffer between the two belligerents, the French daily Liberation reported today.
For the first time, France's new combat aircraft, the hugely expensive Rafale, carried out missions of "combat air patrol" from its base on board the newly refurbished aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, the newspaper said. Flying off the Indian and Pakistani coastline, these fighters "neutralised" the zone, military experts told reporters.
Alongside Hawkeye spy planes, the French navy's Rafales participated in maritime and aerial surveillance in the Arabian Sea. With their dissuasive presence, the Rafales prevented Indian and Pakistani fighter planes from using the sea route to carry out incursions into each other's territory, as was their wont in the past, the report said.
In 1999, India had shot down a Pakistani Breguet Atlantic on a spy mission.
Armed with air-to-air missiles, the Rafales undertook several daily two-hour-long patrols in collaboration with the U.S. Navy's F 14s and F18s present in the region.
(c) 2002 Katsuri & Sons Ltd.

[MohammedA]

PAK AIRFORCE SETS UP FORWARD AIRBASE TO COUNTER IAF.


Islamabad, July 4 (PTI) Pak Airforce has set up forward bases in the slopes of Siachen to counter Indian Airforce operations from bases in Leh, Jammu and Thoise.
Quoting PAF sources Pakistan daily Nawai Waqt reported that for a long time, India has been using forward airbases in Leh, Jammu and Thoise to provide air cover to its ground forces along the border in Northern Areas and Kashmir.
India, it said, had moved warplanes and bomber aircraft to these bases after December last year and now Pakistan has activated its bases in Northern Areas by moving its warplanes in the bases situated in the slopes of Siachen Mountain.
According to PAF sources, earlier Indian warplanes used to take off from other bases to provide air cover to the ground forces in Northern Areas but later they shifted base in Northern Areas.
PAF Chief Air Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir visited forward air bases in Northern Areas on Wednesday, it said.
(c) 2002 Asia Pulse Pte Limited.
Asia Pulse gives no warranty or guarantee as to the accuracy of the information, Asia Pulse shall not be liable for errors or omissions in, or delays or interruptions to or cessation of delivery of, the data through its negligence or otherwise.

[Shoaib]

Originally posted by MohammedA
FRENCH JETS PATROLLED - INDO-PAK. COASTLINE'.


By Vaiju Naravane.

....

In 1999, India had shot down a Pakistani Breguet Atlantic on a spy mission.

(c) 2002 Katsuri & Sons Ltd.

Assalamu aleikum,

Where the heck is this news piece from? They should get their facts straight ... but oh, its written by a bhindian ... One cannot be suprised then, but still ... so, do you know which magazine this is from?

W'salam

[SyedA]

Pakistan to get 3 surveillance aircraft in couple of days: ISLAMABAD, Jul 6 : Pakistan would get three fixed wing surveillance aircraft from the US to help fortify vigilance along the Durand Line. Five modern choppers equipped with high tech surveillance and communication system have already been handed over to Pakistan to keep hawk's eye on illegal entry from across the border on its western flank. Director General National Commission on Crises Management Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Cheema told APP today "These aircraft would land in Pakistan in a couple of days." The aircraft carry modern equipment that could monitor the movements on the ground and effectively counter them if desired so. These aircraft and helicopters would be deployed at Quetta base to keep a vigilant eye along the common borders with Afghanistan. In addition to that, a number of special type of vehicles and arms besides equipment would also be supplied to Pakistan. This was agreed by the US authorities during the last visit of Interior Minister Lt. Gen (Retd) Moinuddin Haider to the US. (APP) (Posted @ 23:00 PDT)

[Usman Shabbir]

I am pretty sure I could make time to read a page or two a day, time permitted. guess a 200pg book will take any whare from 100 to 200 days.

I will scan the pages but it will take some time. Will email you when I do.

[H Khan]

By Dominic Evans

LONDON, July 7 (Reuters) - Campaigners against the arms trade accused Britain of hypocrisy on Sunday after reports that London was violating its own guidelines for arms exports by selling fighter jet components to Israel via the United States.

The Observer newspaper said Britain, committed to an "ethical" foreign policy preventing sales of arms for external aggression or internal repression, would allow the equipment to leave Britain for use in F-16 jets already sold to Israel.:confused:

The paper quoted a senior government figure as saying there was "a 'clear understanding' the fighter planes could be used for aggressive acts against the occupied territories."

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have been waging a 22-month revolt against Israeli occupation. At least 1,435 Palestinians and 548 Israelis have been killed in the violence.

Israel has on several occasions fired missiles from F-16s against Palestinian targets.

Officials at Britain's foreign, trade and defence ministries declined to comment on the reported sale, which involves navigation and targeting equipment for the jets which the paper said are being built in the United States.

But they admitted the increasingly global nature of arms production made restrictions harder to enforce.

Anti-arms trade activists accused the government of allowing the interests of Britain's multi-billion pound arms export industry to ride roughshod over ethical concerns.

"They have been arming India and Pakistan, even while they stood on the brink of nuclear war, and now they are choosing to contribute directly to death and destruction in the Middle East," said Sam Perlo-Freeman of Campaign Against Arms Trade.

"They are clearly without shame, with the interests of the arms manufacturers being all."

Britain said in April it had tightened up controls on exports to Israel after it discovered parts of British-built tanks had been used in armoured personnel carriers deployed in the occupied territories.

Government officials said Foreign Secretary Jack Straw would set out to parliament later this week the government's policy on sales of arms assembled in more than one country.

"It's not a new policy. It's guidance based on the existing criteria to take account of multinational assembly lines for major defence contracts," a spokesman said.

Any relaxation in the guidelines is likely to trigger widespread criticism in parliament and from within Prime Minister Tony Blair's centre-left Labour Party.

Left-wing Labour MP Alice Mahon warned there would be "massive objections" to any easing of the rules and Liberal Democrat Menzies Campbell said it would be a "further nail in the coffin of a foreign policy with an ethical dimension."


07/07/02 09:48 ET

[MohammedA]

PakNews.com


Toasting heat leads to explosion at Shahbaz airbase
Updated on 2002-07-09 12:10:31




JACOBABAD, July 09 (PNS): It was not a bomb explosion but blasting of bullets due to sizzling heat at famous airbase of Jacobabad Sindh province, claimed the reliable sources.

Jacobabad the hottest city of the country could experience explosion at the airbase on Sunday at 2.PM.

The incessant explosions and thunders sent wave of fear amongst the citizens and inhabitants in the vicinity.

Sources said, "American soldiers at the airbase leave scrapes and disposable things in tones. It is given on the contract for disposal. Many a times bullets and other explosive items are found during the collecting of scrapes and disposables.

Pakistani soldiers have advised the American soldiers to be careful but American has ignored it. There has been hot exchange of words too", sources claimed.

The incident of explosion was an evidence of recklessness on the part of the US soldiers" sources added.

End.

[H Khan]

DHAKA (July 21 2002) : Bangladesh and US armed forces began a joint military exercise to hone disaster skills on Saturday, the defence ministry said.

The exercise, known as "Balance Buffalo", will focus on bolstering rescue skills and managing disasters, the ministry said. In addition to the military, members of other Bangladeshi security forces will take part in the exercises that are set to end on August 15.

Bangladesh is a South Asian nation often beset by floods and storms. In 1998, floods killed more than 3,500 people and destroyed more than two million tonnes of rice crops.-Reuters

[uazim]

What is more expensive, by weight, B-2 or Gold?

UA

[Murad]

Originally posted by uazim
What is more expensive, by weight, B-2 or Gold?

UA

hmmm......interesting question. Never thought of it that way.

At Yesterdays price at NY stock exchange 152,635 Kgs (typical take off weight for B-2) of Gold is worth ~ $1.62 billion. The per unit official cost of B-2 is $ 1.2 - 1.3 billion, while most experts put the cost at about $2 billion. So more expensive than gold by weigth - specially when one considers that gold prices are higher these days than they've been for a long time.

[H Khan]

(Source : NAVAIR ; issued July 31, 2002)

Hold on a minute! It isn’t what it seems! Everyone should remember the menacing black “Mig-28s” from the movie “Top Gun”. What everyone may not know is that the movie Mig-28 was in fact the Northrop F-5 Tiger II, an aircraft used extensively in training to emulate the characteristics of Soviet fighter aircraft in Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM). The F-5 Tiger II currently serves with two squadrons: the Navy’s Fighter Composite Squadron (VFC) 13 “Saints” and the Marine Corps’ Fighter Attack Training Squadron (VMFAT) 401 “Snipers”. Day in and day out these F-5 airframes take part in simulated air combat, subjecting them to forces that eat up their fatigue life much faster than an aircraft in normal usage. How do you replace an aircraft that is no longer in production? You buy used, of course, and the Swiss have the best deal in town!

North Island’s Adversary Fleet Support Team is currently supporting the NAVAIR acquisition of 32 low-hour F-5E aircraft from Switzerland to be used in the adversary role, keeping our Navy fighter pilots honed to a razor sharp edge! The new aircraft will be equipped with several improvements over the current models, including a new performance monitoring system, anti-skid brakes, improved instrumentation with audio G-meter, a modified canopy locking system, countermeasures (flare/chaff ALE-40), inertial navigation system, radar warning receiver, gaseous oxygen system (as opposed to liquid oxygen), improved ejection seat and, of course, a Swiss clock.

A rework process that will include incorporation of an upper cockpit longeron change, new fuel cells and vertical stabilizers, complete Phased Depot Maintenance evolution, and a complete strip-, inspection-, paint- process ensures that these “used” aircraft will be in top condition as they transition into the Navy’s inventory. All of this is an enormous undertaking but the results will be evident as the adversary squadrons receive their superior “new” aircraft.

Due to a list of nearly 600+ modifications that have been incorporated on the Swiss aircraft, one of the greatest challenges to the FST will be to provide maintenance manuals to the squadrons which are applicable to the “new” F-5’s. Since many of the modifications are not reflected in the maintenance manuals and job guides, a unique set of publications is being generated to support these aircraft. Adversary FST engineer Greg McCalester, Code 4.3.3.1, said, “Currently the Navy relies on the Air Force for updates to the F-5 publications. Having a unique set of pubs will not only more accurately depict the configuration of our new aircraft, but will enable the Navy to make changes to the pubs without having to get Air Force concurrence.” Clearly, the end product will be a major improvement for the fleet, yielding better publications and more responsive and effective documentation support for the maintainers.

All of these efforts will ensure that our adversary squadrons have the tools necessary to keep the Navy’s fighter pilots well prepared to engage and destroy the enemy any time, anywhere. Good hunting!






I believe these adversary squadrons were to receive 14 ex-PAF F-16. I think an interesting development.

[MohammedA]

FELLOW OF AIR WAR COLLEGE CERTIFICATES.
Karachi, July 27 (PPI): A certificate award ceremony was held at PAF Air War College, Shara-e-Faisal to award "Fellow of Air War College" certificates to graduates of 15th Air War Course. Air Marshal Saleem Arshad HI (M), S Bt, Vice Chief of Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force, who was Chief Guest at the ceremony gave away certificates to graduating officers. Air Vice Marshal, Maqbool Ali Shah, Commandant PAF Air War College, received the Chief Guest and presented course report highlighting various salient aspects of the course. In addition to officers from Pak Army and Navy, allied officers from China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Syria also participated in the course. Speaking on the occasion, Chief Guest, Air Marshal Saleem Arshad, congratulated the graduating officers on successfully completing the course and being admitted as "Fellows of Air War College." He acknowledged the stature of Air War College as premier seat of learning and college's contribution in creating awareness about challenges emerging in the changed Geo-Political situation. He said, "Inputs provided by the college will enable participants to grasp new changes in strategic milieu."
(c) 2002 Asia Pulse Pte Limited.
Asia Pulse gives no warranty or guarantee as to the accuracy of the information, Asia Pulse shall not be liable for errors or omissions in, or delays or interruptions to or cessation of delivery of, the data through its negligence or otherwise.

[Maruf29]

Govt trying to buy latest fighters: PM



UNB, Dhaka


Prime Minister Khaleda Zia yesterday said her government was trying to procure some latest fighter planes and equipment at the soonest for the Bangladesh Air Force to enhance its defensive strengths.

She said despite resource constraints, these necessary purchases should be made in view of the country's geopolitical and strategic importance and its role in the UN peacekeeping operations on global plane.


The prime minister, who also holds the defence portfolio, informed the airforce officers that the government made arrangements to send manpower and equipment from the Air Force soon to install an aviation and airfield support unit in the UN mission.


In this connection, she cited the laudable role of the Air Force as well as the armed forces of Bangladesh in the United Nations Peacekeeping Mission.

Addressing a function at the Falcon Hall of Bangladesh Air Force here in the afternoon, she, however, reminded that only addition of latest technology is not enough for acquir ing desired working capacity.


"The best use and effective application of these national resources procured with hard-earned public money should be ensured through professional skill, obedience and honesty," she told them.


Khaleda said modern equipment and professional competence are imperative to work keeping pace with other developed Air Forces on the international arena.


The prime minister said her government had already given permission to the Air Force for participating in joint exercises and training with other countries in order to build up a modern and strong force.


"By taking this opportunity, I hope, our Air Force gradually will be able to attain international standards in professional, technical, and organisational skills and qualities."

This was prime minister's second visit to the Air Force headquarters and meeting with officers and personnel after assuming power last October, while first visit after Air Vice-Marshal Fakhrul Azam became Chief of Air Staff on April 8.


Earlier at 11:30am, Khaleda visited the Air Force Headquarters where a smart contingent of the airforce presented her a guard of honour. She took the salute. The Air Force Chief received the prime minister.


During her stay at the headquarters for over an hour, Air Chief Fakhrul and assistant chief of the airforce Commodore Shafiqul Islam apprised the prime minister of the BAF's activities.


Addressing the airforce, the prime minister said instructions had been given to the authorities concerned for taking various welfare measures for the members of the airforce.


Responding to their longstanding demand, Khaleda said, amid applause, that warrant officer, senior warrant officer and master warrant officer posts would be in force from October this year abolishing the post of Flight Sergeant.


She hoped that each qualified Flight Sergeant would get promotion to Warrant Officer within next one year.


The PM assured that her government would do all possible for the welfare and development of the airforce removing difficulties and problems.

[Maruf29]

Air team leaves for China



BSS, Dhaka


A three-member delegation of Bangladesh Air Force led by Chief of Air Staff Air Vice-Marshal Fakhrul Azam left here yesterday on a seven-day official visit to China. During the visit, Air Vice-Marshal Azam will call on the Minister of Defence, Armed Forces Chief of General Staff and the Chief of the Air Staff of the People's Republic of China and discuss matters relating to mutual interest, an Air Force press release said.

The Chief of Air Staff will be accompanied by his wife during the visit, the release added.


Maruf

[H Khan]

(Source : Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company ; issued Aug. 19, 2002)

FORT WORTH, Texas --- Thailand's Korat Air Base received the first five of 16 refurbished Lockheed Martin F-16s on Aug. 17 as part of the country's ongoing efforts to modernize its air force. The delivery marks the activation of the third F-16 squadron for the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF).

F-16s are made by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., a business area of Lockheed Martin Corp.

The U.S. Air Force refurbished and delivered the aircraft. Lockheed Martin provided the upgrade kits for refurbishment and will provide logistics support and maintenance training. Plans call for five more F-16s to be delivered in October and the remaining six early next year.

Air Chief Marshal Thares Punsri, chief of the Air Staff for the RTAF, accepted the aircraft and expressed his appreciation to the U.S. Air Force and F-16 industrial team, led by Lockheed Martin, for the professional execution of the Peace Naresuan IV program.

"This is another significant step in the modernization of our air force with the Fighting Falcons," Thares said.

Paul Jones, Lockheed Martin's program director for Thailand, attended the delivery ceremony and said he is proud the company has an integral role in providing state-of-the-art equipment to the RTAF.

Thailand has received 36 new F-16A/Bs in three previous buys delivered between 1988 and 1996. Thailand, which has been operating the aircraft for 14 years, recently surpassed 55,000 flight hours with an excellent safety record.

The aircraft in the current order came from USAF storage at the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center in Tucson, Ariz. The planes were transferred to Ogden Air Logistics Center for incorporation of the Falcon Up structural upgrade and other modifications. The engines were upgraded to the F100-PW-220E configuration by the Pratt & Whitney San Antonio Engine Center and will match the other RTAF F-16 engines.

This group of aircraft consists of 15 F-16A single-seat models and one F- 16B two-seat model. The last six aircraft will support training in the United States until their delivery next year.

Thailand is one of six countries that have acquired more than 150 F-16A/Bs from USAF storage. In 2003, the Italian Air Force will begin receiving the same version selected by Thailand.

The F-16, the world's most sought-after fighter, is the choice of 23 countries. More than 4,000 aircraft have been delivered, hundreds more are on order for the United States and seven other countries, and production is expected to continue beyond 2010. Major upgrades for all F-16 versions are being incorporated to keep the fleet modern and fully supportable over the aircraft's long service life.

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas, is a leader in the design, development, systems integration, production and support of advanced military aircraft and related technologies. Its customers include the military services of the United States and allied countries throughout the world. Products include the F-16, F-22, F-35 JSF, F-117, T-50, C-5, C-130, C- 130J, S-3, P-3 and U-2.

Lockheed Martin Corp., headquartered in Bethesda, Md., is a global enterprise principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture and integration of advanced technology systems, products and services. Employing about 125,000 people worldwide, Lockheed Martin had 2001 sales of $24 billion.

[SyedA]

Stronger PAF can help lower tension, says US senator


By Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON, Sept 5: The United States should help strengthen Pakistan's defence, particularly its air force, if it wants to reduce tensions in South Asia, a US senator said on Thursday. If the current imbalance in the region continues, he added, Pakistan could be forced to defend itself with non-conventional means.

Senator Robert Torricelli, a Democrat from New Jersey - a state with one of the largest South Asian immigrant communities in America - also said the United States should help Pakistan create more jobs by rebuilding its economy. "It's not possible to fight terrorism if there is widespread unemployment," he said.

Referring to India-Pakistan tensions earlier this summer when the two nuclear neighbours came close to fighting yet another war, Mr Torricelli said such situations could be avoided in the future "only if Pakistan has a strong defence, particularly a strong air force. The United States must help Pakistan rebuild its air force."

He said that the situation that existed earlier this summer could be repeated if Pakistan had a weak daffiness.

Mr Torricelli said he had written a letter to Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and several other members of Congress sent a similar letter, supporting Pakistan's request for US help in bulking up its defence, particularly the air force.

The Pakistan Air Force has traditionally depended on the United States as its main supplier of arms, and during the Afghan war also purchased several dozen F-16 fighter jets from Washington.

But then President George H.W. Bush stopped delivery of 32 F-16s in 1990 even though Pakistan had already paid for them. Bush's administration said it was forced to do so because Pakistan had a military nuclear programme. The Pakistanis complain that they had a nuclear programme during the Afghan war (1979-89) as well but the United States never spoke of sanctions when it needed Pakistan's support for fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Talking to a group of Pakistani physicians at a fund-raising dinner, Torricelli disagreed with those who say that the United States is only a fair-weather friend.

"The United States and Pakistan have had friendly relations for more than 50 years and this relationship has withstood the test of time," he said, adding that "foreign policies of a nation are based on practical and pragmatic considerations."

Explaining this, Torricelli noted that China and Cuba are both communist states and the United States has problems with both. "We applied economic sanctions against Cuba but not against China because it would be ridiculous to isolate one billion people. It cannot be done."

He urged the Pakistanis to develop economic ties if they want a steady relationship with the United States. "Strategic ties are also important but it is the economic ties that help a nation progress," he added.

He agreed with a questioner who said terrorism would continue as long as the Palestinian issue was not resolved, but he said the United States' main goal was to ensure the continued existence of Israel, "which should not be a question now" as most Arab nations also have recognized the Jewish state.

[Abbas]

From Business Reorder:

US plans to sell Hawkeye aircraft to UAE

WASHINGTON (September 07 2002) : The Pentagon said it plans to sell the United Arab Emirates five refurbished and upgraded E-2C Hawkeye tactical warning aircraft, radar sets and spares valued at up to $400 million.

In a notice to Congress dated Wednesday, but released Thursday, the Pentagon said the proposed sale would enhance the security of a friendly state that "continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East."

The Emirates need the E-2C for air defence of its naval forces and for enhanced command, control and communications, said the Defence Security Cooperation Agency, the Pentagon arm that handles government-to-government weapons sales.

The prime contractor would be Northrop Grumman Aircraft Corp. of Bethpage, New York, a unit of Northrop Grumman Corp, the Pentagon said.-Reuters

Copyright 2002 Reuters (Published under arrangements with Reuters)

[Hasib]

Mr Torricelli said he had written a letter to Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and several other members of Congress sent a similar letter, supporting Pakistan's request for US help in bulking up its defence, particularly the air force.

I reside in NJ. Senator Robert Torricelli is in a middle of tough reelection campaign against republican opponent. He had a major ethics investigation & was reprimanded by U.S. Senate ethics board. He is also courting Indian votes. So any thing he says about Pakistan, I’ll take it with grain of salt.
About 2 weeks ago The Star-Ledger wrote an article about growing influence of Indian community. I think in near future Indians will try to influence US foreign policy vis-à-vis India & Pakistan. There are more Indians than Pakistanis. They can be a deciding voter block in a tight election. Below is link to two articles relating to Torricellis reelection campaign & growing Indian influence in U.S. politics.

Hobbled Torricelli and obscure Forrester begin race to November (http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1030957814300204.xml)

Asian-Indians take seat at Jersey's political table (http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-3/103035303244669.xml)

Hasib

[Sultan]

(sorry not related to the PAK military but did not warrant a new thread)

WASHINGTON (September 07 2002) : The Bush Administration said it planned to sell Egypt up to $315 million worth of anti-tank missiles and radar sets along with helicopters and aircraft that could be used to ferry top commanders.

In notices to Congress dated Wednesday but released on Thursday, the Pentagon said the proposed sales would boost the security of a friendly country that continued to be "an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East."

Egypt is seeking 459 Lockheed Martin Corp Hellfire II air-to-ground anti-armour missiles plus high-mobility multi-purpose wheeled vehicles valued at up to $122 million if all options are exercised, the Pentagon's Defence Security Cooperation Agency said.

Cairo also wanted 12 AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel radar systems used to protect front-line troops and valued at up to $44 million, the agency said. The prime contractor for the radar sets is Thales-Raytheon Systems Co., an El Segundo, California-based joint venture of France's Thales Group and Raytheon Co of Lexington, Massachusetts.

The other proposed sales involved two Gulfstream G-IV SPaircraft and two VIP Blackhawk helicopters, all of which could be used for movement of the those at the top of the chain of command, the Pentagon said.

Congress has 30 days to review the proposals; no foreign military sale formally presented by the Defence Department has ever been rejected by US lawmakers.-Reuters

Copyright 2002 Reuters (Published under arrangements with Reuters)

[Sultan]

TEHRAN (September 07 2002) : Iran successfully test fired a solid-fuelled surface-to-surface missile, the head of Defence Ministry's Aerospace Industry Organisation, Ahmad Vahid, said on Friday.

He said the missile, named Fateh A-110 (Conqueror A-110), is "the latest achievement" of the country's defence industry, since it "is based on indigenous know-how in design and production".

Iran also tested its ultra-modern control systems during the implementation of this project, Vahid said, adding "given the missile's precision, we can definitely announce that Fateh A-110 is among the most precise surface-to-surface missiles in the world".-PPI

Copyright 2002 PPI (Published under arrangement with Pakistan Press International)

[Awaisi]

Sallam

Last night I heard on PTV world's Anwar Maqsood Program commemorating 6Sep65 war, a Wing Commander on a question responded that there were 6 K-8s with PAF currently going evaluation as a "Basic Trainer" and the replacement for T-37, and another 6 will be inducted soon to evaluate as a "conversion trainer. Also, Pakistan had 25% share in the project (and not 50% that is what we hear on the forum). The project was originally started by China as L-8 aircraft.

Re: S-7 he said that the first prototype will be flying early next year.

I thought this may sound interesting for the forum members.

Awaisi

[uazim]

Air Chief warns of PAF-IAF technology gap

From M.A. Niazi
SARGODHA-Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir has warned that the technology gap between the PAF and the Indian Air Force is increasing; and if not rectified, would lead to the PAF being unable to maintain its present ability to counter the IAF.
ACM Mir was addressing senior newsmen at PAF Sargodha at a special briefing to coincide with Air Force Day on Saturday. He said that at the moment, despite its numerical inferiority, the PAF was capable of creating decisive effects in the event of war with India. He said that the Indian numerical superiority had always existed, and had always been countered by the PAF by technological and personnel superiority. Also, he added, the PAF had the ability to inflict sufficient damage to India so that it would hurt, and the Indian conviction that this was the case also played a role in deterring a war.
He said that Pakistan had passed through a phase of difficult circumstances due to political and economic sanctions, which had meant that the PAF had not been able to acquire required equipment even when the government had made the requisite funds available. However, the PAF response had been to increase the capability of existing equipment by innovation and upgradation, and in a way the sanctions had made the PAF stand more on its own feet. Since the IAF was suffering at present from fleet instability, the PAF could match it, but if equipment was not acquired to keep pace with Indian acquisitions, the PAF would not be able to prevent the technological gap increasing.
Later answering a question, he said that this technological gap was his main worry as CAS. He said the worrying recent development was Indo-Israeli cooperation, which was bringing to the Indians American technology, which would become available to them directly also. This cooperation, he said, would probably lead to an improvement in the way Indians went about doing things, which was not so far as efficient as the PAF.
He also acknowledged that heavy expenditures were required, but the government had to decide whether to reduce the threat by political means, and thus allow a reduction in forces, or to provide the means for the forces to carry out their missions.
Answering questions, ACM Mir said that there were no pressures apparent on China to reduce conventional cooperation with Pakistan, and all joint ventures were proceeding according to plan. He said that the Super-7 project should achieve a prototype aircraft in June 2003, while Chinese advances in technology had made it now an option to obtain its avionics from Chinese firms rather than European.
To another question, he said that Sabit Qadam II, the largest exercise of its kind, had proved that the PAF was ready to fulfil the Army’s requirements for theatre air superiority for offensive/counteroffensive ground operations. He added that the PAF was a potent force, not shy of attrition, which would achieve desired results, if employed as planned.
About the PAF’s nuclear role, he said that the setting up of PAF’s Strategic Command under an Air Vice Marshal showed that the PAF was fully involved and prepared for this role as well.
Asked whether membership of the National Security Council would distract him or his successors from the tasks of CAS, he said that it was a worthwhile forum which did not consume much time, but provided an opportunity to dovetail professional solutions with policy decision-making at the political level. He gave the example of the recent Gultari Sector incident, saying that the NSC had played an important and worthwhile role in shaping Pakistan’s response.
Asked about the convening of the US-Pak Defence Consultative Group, he said it was a big achievement in itself, as they had ended with sanctions, and would provide the basis for future arms acquisitions.
Asked about the possibility of acquiring de-commissioned USAF F-16s, he said it was a definite possibility, as these aircraft were capable of being upgraded, would be cheap and were already in service with the PAF. He noted that several other countries, including India, were interested in these planes. However, he said, “we musn’t be hungry” and should only go for these planes if the political grounds were prepared, and if the long-term relationship with the USA was stabilised.
Otherwise, he said, the PAF was evaluating other aircraft, and its preference should be for “time-tested friends”, including China and France, which had never stopped maintenance of PAF euipment even when there were sanctions on sale.
Answering another question, he said that in the nuclearised South Asian environment, a classic all-out conventional war would not occur. Future war would be limited, but short, swift and intense. In this environment, the air force, as the shortest, swiftest and most intense force, would play a major role, and under these circumstances, numerical superiority would be neutralised. It would be more important to have a ‘lean lethal’ rather than a ‘large lethal’ air force.
Earlier, the newsmen were briefed by Base Commander Air Cdre Sabih Hussain about the history of Sargodha Base, with emphasis on the Battle for Sargodha on 7 September 1965, for which September 7 was selected as Air Force Day, and were briefed on the operational readiness of the PAF by Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Plans) Air Cdre Faaiz Amir.
Later, the press team witnessed an Air Defence scramble by F-16s, and visited a static display of the various types of fighter aircraft stationed at the Base. They were also introduced to Sqn Ldrs Zulfiqar and Afzal, who had recently achieved the world’s first shooting down of an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle by any aircraft, when they downed an Indian Israeli-made UAV just outside of Raiwind. Their Commanding Officer, Wg Cdr Azhar, noted that this had been possible only because of intense training, because shooting down a UAV had earlier been considered almost impossible.


-------------------------------
UA

[uazim]

A lean but lethal PAF

By Mayed Ali

SARGODHA: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir said on Saturday the PAF was capable of adopting an offensive strategy if the enemy dared attack Pakistan.

Addressing newsmen at the PAF Base, Sargodha, in connection with the Air Force Day to commemorate the marvels of the defenders of the skies on September 7, 1965, the air chief gave a loud and clear warning to aggressors from all sides: "The PAF is fully--equipped to create decisive effects in war with India." He said the high--morale of the fighting force, rigorous pilot--training, efficient maintenance of equipment, professional operational planning, courageous leadership and a will to fight hard would make all the difference.

"With our existing resources, we know our strength and weaknesses precisely. We will utilise our strength to hit the enemy hard where it hurts the must, while try to negotiate the weaknesses to minimise the enemy's threat." He added that the PAF exactly knew where to hit the enemy, and with what force. He believed the numerical advantage of India was an inevitable threat, but the PAF had learnt to live with it over the years.

Responding to a question whether the air force was in a position to supplement the ground forces in effecting its missions, Mushaf maintained that the PAF was equipped and prepared to carry out its duty with remarkable accuracy despite being numerically outwinged. "We have lethal weapons, which can be accurately delivered to cause required destruction for supporting the offensive and defensive plans of our surface forces."

However, when queried about the strategic fiasco in 1971, Mushaf clarified that was the result of political indecision. He refuted the impression the PAF could not supplement its ground forces in the execution of strategic plans. "In 1971, we were ready to go down into any kind of threat with our forces on the ground or any crucial battle which had to be either defended or fought," Mushaf made his point clear. Further elaborating on the issue, he said the PAF could be engaged into any mission against an equal airpower, but if it was to be given a mission with three--to--one odds, it would certainly be a difficult one. He went on to explain how the forces should work on specific plans to counter a mightier enemy with numerical odds against them. "The PAF is extremely potent and not shy of any mission, and will achieve results, provided employed under a plan. He emphasized the need for making plans in advance and imparting extreme training to achieve maximum results with minimum resources. He believed best and precise utilisation of the PAF was imperative to neutralise the Indian number--advantage.

The air chief also brushed aside the apprehensions regarding strong worrisome scenario because of the widening of the numerical gap after the grounding of main interceptor, F--6 (MiG--19). He maintained the PAF had not much been affected by that effect as it had replaced the larger F--6 fleet with a relatively smaller Mirage--V fleet, which was more sophisticated. He substantiated his point by giving details on the Dassault Mirage--Vs, which had been imported from Australia, and upgraded in Pakistan quite successfully. He also mentioned the upgraded Mirages Pakistan imported from France. He said the Pakistan's front--line aircrafts and secondline aircrafts in all specifications (multiroles, interceptors and bombers) when equated against the same of IAF -- Mirrage 2000--Vs, MiG--29s, Su--27s, Jaguars and MiG--23s, MiG--21s -- Pakistan might be lagging numerically, but had the potential to take the enemy headon. He believed the IAF's Russian inventory lacked performance and reliability, and PAF had a technological edge in that context. He said the hitech gadget — avionics, radar, missiles etc — on the aircraft could give it the air--superiority. He compared the operational proficiency ratio of the IAF and the PAF variable fleets, saying the PAF had a better operational performance rate. He said the IAF state was unstable in the next few years for it was going through the transitional period. Once the IAF replaced the existing fleet, Mushaf admitted, the PAF would be at a disadvantageous place if it did not take quick initiatives to match the Indian airpower.

Despite being in high--spirits, Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir made no bones about revealing the fact Pakistan had to catch up fast with the Indian strife to take air--supremacy by acquiring more sophisticated, multirole, hitech state of the art fighter--aircraft from a host of western countries, besides placing orders to its old ally, Russia for the delivery of sophisticated and upgraded Su--30s (having the capable of striking deep in the enemy territory). He was especially concerned about the Israeli--Indian cooperation in the upgradation of existing fleets and development of the new aircraft. He also anticipated, with concern, the Indo--US cooperation in the field of defense.

The chief of air staff revealed the PAF had no financial constraints at the moment as the previous and the present government fully supported the PAF's standpoint of the airpower's importance in changing the battle--complexion in coming times. He quoted Pakistan had acquired over 100 Mirages, 71 F--7PGs, 6 K--8s, 6 A--5s, five radars and numerous avionics and other equipment in the last two years. He added the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee had a consensus on one point, that is, air--superiority was a must to achieve strategic war objectives in the event of engagement.

Mushaf strongly believed the future wars would be short, swift and devastating, where air--land strategy would prevail rather than the conventional land--air strategy. He was of the view that a `lean and lethal' airforce would do wonders in setting the course of war as against large and relatively docile airpower. The swiftness and the duration of the war would play the deciding role in future wars. He strongly believed that the nuclear capability would act as deterrent rather than the decisive force. The sophistication of armaments, the aircrafts and avionics would give any airforce an edge over the enemy, which, in turn, would decide the fate of the war.

----------------------------------------------------

UA

[Shoaib]

http://www.paknews.org/top.php?id=1&date1=2002-09-08


Pak Air Force established nuclear-armed strategic command: Air Chief
Updated on 2002-09-08 10:27:14

SARGODHA, September 08 (PNS): Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Mushaf Ali Mir Saturday said Pakistan Air Force has established its strategic command with reference to nuclear arms and "if war between India and Pakistan occurs now, it will be short, swift and intensive."

However, he made it clear that the nuclear deterrence is "political deterrence". "Only conventional force is the military deterrence," the PAC chief senior journalists of the national press during an address and later a briefing at Sargodha Air Base.

Advocating the need for adding more strength to Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshall, Mushaf Ali Mir has said that Pakistan should not only rely on US for defense and military cooperation adding that there are the broader prospects for enhancing defense cooperation with other countries as well.

Appreciating the high spirit and marked level of professional training of PAF, he said these are the factors which have given edge PAF on India despite the latter's numerical superiority.

"We know how to yield India matching response in the face of its numerical superiority," he remarked. The full fledges preparations on our part acts as deterrence as the enemy is alive to the fact if it attacks, it will face a befitting reply from Pakistan.

The PAF chief maintained that PAF has full capability to inflict maximum loss on India. Despite the fact that India has more prospects to cause loss to Pakistan because of its numerical superiority, however it is objective of Pakistan that the enemy does not win the war and we don't face the defeat.

Air chief martial pointed out that PAF has evolved strategy to assess the weakness of enemy and target it in an effective manner. If the enemy is capable of destroying 10 Pakistani targets, we have also potential to destroy its four effective targets. As compared to India, one warplane of Pakistan can carry out more missions daily, he hinted.

He held that despite the decade long restrictions, Pakistan has succeeded in keeping its air force more stable and effective.

He noted if India disturbs the balance of power with securing more sophisticated planes then US would have to come forward for the assistance to Pakistan to marginalize the difference. What difference lies between Pakistan and India with regard to air power, Pakistan is fully capable to face it, he asserted. However, the difference should not be allowed to further widen, he cautioned.

He stressed that government should continue to take measures to build air force on modern lines. If Pakistan wants to keep maximum traditional military deterrence, it can be achieved only by making the air force stronger, he suggested.

Citing to restrictions on PAF, he said that sometimes the external embargoes go for positive effects, which leads to establish more contacts with the friendly countries and self-reliance.

Pointing to various defense plans of Pakistan, he said that the largest joint defense project with China concerns Super-7 planes. It prototype model will fly on experimental flight in June -2003, he stated. Pakistan has equipped fifty Meraj aircrafts obtained from Australia with sophisticated radar system by overhauling them within its own resources, he told.

He revealed that Pakistan has 114 Meraj planes and the work of overhauling of aircrafts is going to full capacity in Kamra.

Responding to queries from the journalists, he said that China is Pakistan's trustworthy friend and it is not facing any pressure for its cooperation with Pakistan. The Avionics (Surveillance) system of planes has progressed in a big way in China and Pakistan is contemplating to secure this system from China. No problem is there for cooperation in traditional defense field with China, he observed.

Hinting at positive results of the war games 'Sabat Qadam-2' which took place last year, he said that the objective could be achieved for which the defense preparations were made.

He indicated that talks would be held with US to boost traditional defense cooperation. The meeting of Pak-US defense consultative group will be held on September 25. This event in itself is a big matter, he remarked.

About F-16 aircrafts he said that Pakistan should not restrict itself to F-16 planes adding if the political relations with the world countries are better, we can acquire planes and traditional defense equipment from anywhere in the world.

Pakistan has not only to remain confined to US but it has to develop defense links with other countries as well, he noted. It is however established fact that the military equipment of US is preferably better, he added.

Responding to a question about the strategy of PAF, he said that it is based on the policy of forward attacks besides defense.

He said that prospects of Indo-Pak war are not over adding if war takes place there is possibility it will be brief, effective and the fastest.

End.

[azeemchoudhary]

promotion of PAC ahead of IDEAS 2002
from The news (jang-group)
PAC to manufacture fighter jet

KAMRA: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) is expected to attain capability of indigenously producing modern fighter aircraft and its avionics in few years. The PAC located at Kamra, 75 km from Islamabad, with F-6 Rebuild Factory, Mirage Rebuild Factory, Aircraft Manufacturing Factory, Avionics and Radar Factory (all ISO-9002 certified) is currently developing a modern fighter ai